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9/7/2015 1:51:58 PM
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Are you using physical things to measure spiritual? Lol. That's like taking the measure of a temperature with a tape measure.
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So how do you suggest the "spiritual" is measured to show it actually exists? Also please clearly define what "spiritual" actually means.
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You're trying to measure the incorporeal with corporeal instruments. But there are lots of things that suggest the existence of the spiritual. Like the appreciation of music. The beauty of the sunset. Things that speak to the core of us.
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Those things in no way require a spiritual element to exist and are both simply or subjective reaction to something physical. So I ask again how do we measure the spiritual? How do we detect it and know it actually exists beyond a feeling?
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I would say how we react to those things, and things like that, such as compassion, are indications of a spirit. You can't measure it, you just come to know it's there.
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Those things don't require spirit at all, perhaps you should do some study of the field of neuroscience.
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Perhaps you should be open minded.
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I am open minded, that's why when presented with new facts and evidence I change my opinions. Seems to me it is you who have closed your mind. You value your belief in the spiritual so much that you would rather ignore the answers neuroscience can give so as to preserve your belief. You have closed your mind to knowledge to preserve your belief, I can only hope one day you open it enough to take in knowledge that is against your preconceptions as well as things you think support it. The world is a fantastic and wondrous place without needing to preserve belief over fact.
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You just don't understand
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No I understand what you are saying, it's just wrong. We don't need a spiritual explanation for things that have natural explanations no matter how much you might like the idea of spirit existing
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There's a lot that can be assigned to chemicals. But there are some things that don't make sense. Little, unassuming things.
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Chemistry is a deep and rich subject it's amazing what can be achieved with it. If our appreciation of beauty comes from some intangible spirit then why does changes to brain chemistry and make up affect it? Such as? And is it that they don't make sense to you in your ignorance of the subject or that they actually don't make sense to those that actually understand neuroscience? You are aware aren't you that to prove spirit is required as an explanation you have to provide actual ways it explains things and not just say what you don't know about science?
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I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply saying that we shouldn't give up in looking for something when our instruments aren't built for what we're looking for. And we shouldn't say something isn't there when there are things that suggest it's existence. Like, why do people even turn to spirituality? Because they don't understand brains? Maybe, but what about the brain surgeon that turns to it? There is something in the human existence that suggests a noncorporeal state. It influences us, whether we consciously realize it or not. Maybe you are aware, and maybe your not. But I am. I am convinced through my experience that I am not just a physical thing, but that i have a spirit, and it is effected by other spiritual things. I'm not trying to convince you of anything. But simply chalking it up to neurochemistry, well, doesn't seem to be the whole reason we are who we are, and act like we act. We don't even know why we get sleepy. Or how memory works. Maybe it's just a gut feeling, but I know there is a spiritual existence outside of what my physical eyes see.
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Again who we are and how we act we know to be because of our physical brains because when they get damaged who we are and how we act changes. People who were deeply in love beforehand can suffer brain trauma and then feel nothing for the other person after. Where is our spirit then? People turn to spirit for many reasons, not understanding how the world really works, wanting to believe they will live on after death, wanting to believe loved ones are still with them, simply liking the mysticism of it all. None of these reasons actually suggests spirit exists, we see absolutely no real world effect caused by it. As for feeling it their people feel their God with them all over the world despite those gods being mutually exclusive, feelings are very unreliable data.
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I disagree with that sentiment.
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That's your right, one of the great things about the world is no one can force you to agree with reality if you don't want to.
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Yep. I hope you realize that there's more to reality than what you can touch.
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Indeed there is, there is gravity, magnetism, emotions etc I am sure you realise that not being able to physically touch something doesnt make is spiritual. I have noticed through all of your close minded evasion you have still yet to actually define "spiritual" past a vague reference to stuff like feelings (that is explainable without spirituality). You have yet to give a single piece of evidence for spiritual things existing or how we can detect them. If you can show how we can actually detect spiritual things and rule out the natural explanations for it then I will be on board with it existing. While the best evidence for it is "well....you know....you can just like......feel it ......you just know its there if you open yourself to it......." then there is zero reason to think its part of reality
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Pretty thorough answer.
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[quote]So how do you suggest the "spiritual" is measured to show it actually exists? Also please clearly define what "spiritual" actually means.[/quote]
