Been saying that since the first pvp-induced nerf. I'm waiting for Destiny 2. I've burned out plus i think their decisions make the game far less fun, for me. That's me, others are entitled to buy 20 copies or buy zero. Doesn't help/hurt me in any way. I DO voice my opinion on here in hopes that they will reconcile the pvp/pve problem eventually and treat DLCs as a continuation of the story, not wipe your inventory out and start fresh. That's what a sequel is for. Certainly has no place in a DLC.

I hear what you're saying. I'm a big Icebreaker fan. But I can't even tell you how many times I've been matched with someone useless who sits in the back and does NOTHING but wait for his IB to charge. Shoot it, run out with your primary, switch back to IB, rinse and repeat. It wouldn't have been nerfed if people followed that example. I would still use it after the nerf. Just gotta readjust with the primary.

That's not a valid reason to nerf ICebreaker, in my own opinion. That's not even the reason that's been given for why they are nerfing it. The reason is, yet again, as per usual, crybaby PVPers who can't stand that fact that someone has secondary ammunition when they have to wait for the box cool down in order to feed their overpowered bullshit guns. The crybabies seem to think that because they have to wait an extended period before using their shotgun/fusion rifle/sniper of choice, that everyone else should have to as well, exotic perks be damned.

Agreed. In fact, we're only talking about an increase of about 15 seconds. That's nothing for me. But in pve, I'm dreading when I'll be matched with the guy hiding the back waiting for the next bullet to pop up. Regardless, I understand WHY they want to nerf it, but I don't believe it's the most effective way.

If they really wanted to keep people from camping with Icebreaker, require that the recharge is powered by your body movements. The more you move, shoot other weapons, and get kills, the faster it recharges, up to a limit. Kills with the weapon don't count, obviously. Or, have the weapon overheat if you keep firing while it's charge is low, hitting you with fire damage and causing you to burn for a few seconds. That'll teach rotten campers, and it goes well with the flavor text. This is my point though, I don't work for Bungie and i can immediately come up with 2 relatively simple and cool ideas to change the weapon up without completely breaking it or rendering it useless. Why can't they, the people who are paid the big bucks, come up with simple design tweaks like these? Surely there is a tiny iota of creativity at their office left?

All game companies force you to play their game their way. Very few change game mechanics or entire software design because people complain about it. Separate stats for PvE and PvP isn't just a math problem, it's a database problem. It's a data model problem. It's an Inventory display problem. It changes much of the game which was built around reading 1 collection of stats and using them. Easier to normalize damage and just adjust impact. That's a big change right there, quite a massive one. I'm not saying impossible, but large aspects that touch a lot of modules. All of which would need full re-testing from scratch. Not to mention double the testing needed for all balance testing. As a software developer I love (read: hate) it when someone says "Oh this is no big deal" when in fact they're asking for a complete foundation change.

Well, hate to break it to you Mr. "Software Developer" but plenty of companies make changes when the community isn't happy, and there have been some pretty impressive undertakings by way of itemization in games that has benefited the players on more than one occasion. A recent example that springs to mind is World of Warcraft. Gear in that game has gone some many different overhauls, it's not even amusing, but most of those changes have always been for the better. Certain pieces of gear now scale up and give you better benefits than standard gear while in PVP zones. That's not hard to do, and trust me pal, WoW has WAY MORE pieces to itemize and reconfigure and test than Bungie ever will in Destiny. The thing is, Blizzard has actual test servers and adequate testing environments, whereas Bungie has cut corners on testing and hotfixes since...well forever. They refuse to set up public tests for patches, hotfixes, and nerfs, even though Destiny's game environment and gear sets are very similar to that of an MMO. You can't just go around making bullshit changes, breaking things, nerfing things into the dirt, make excuses for it while refusing to ACTUALLY fix the problems, and expect everyone to just be happy and content. It's a total lack of transparency and that is why the community feels shut out and the game feels like a glorified Beta test that we are paying to play. What is the point in progression and unique weapons if every time the community finds things they like, Bungie statistic analyst-nerds see a trend and decide "Hmmm people aren't using pulse rifles enough. Let's nerf the -blam!- out of everything else so people HAVE to use PRs". NO. That is the WRONG line of thinking. That is enforcing a playstyle on players that no one wanted or asked for. That is forcing an idealistic view of how the game SHOULD be played, regardless of what the players want. It's an arrogant and presumptuous action that only serves to benefit the vocal minority who clamor for nerfs on things they get killed by in Crucible. We are part of a community where a majority of players have this twisted belief that "If they kill me, they're a tryhard and/or probably cheating, and if I kill them they are a noob". If somebody gets killed by something in Crucible, they bitch and moan about it until Bungie nerfs the shit out of it and makes it worthless, and then they just find something else to bitch and moan about and Bungie nerfs that too. It's an endless cycle and until Bungie finally wisens up and starts listening to people who have a modicum of logic and reasoning, and respect for the game itself, we will continue to see this bullshit practice of getting slammed with nerfs just to appease the whingers. I'm not saying adding in PVP stats would be easy or not consume resources for development, but it sure as hell isn't impossible or even massively difficult, because Destiny just doesn't have that much content that requires "testing" at this point. The reason they won't is not because they can't, but because there is no extra money in it. That, and they really suck at math.

[quote]I'm not saying adding in PVP stats would be easy or not consume resources for development[/quote] [quote]Bungie will never create a PVP stat table because that requires math, and math is hard! If you need proof, just take a look at their TTK pricing for UK and Sweden.[/quote] My response was literally to your "spoiler" text. Because frankly, I've heard similar comments in the past from people that think changing the entire foundation of the software is just "math" or "changing a few symbols" so I get touchy when I hear that. It's hard to tell how serious one's comment is from an online post. [i]"OK, thanks for making a CMS that publishes HTML pages... now change it to a CMS that generates and emails PDF files with charts you calculated on-the-fly. It's just changing a few things around, right?"[/i] In this case, the change you proposed is more than a simple little table and some "math".