Alright, so some folks already know that I have been holding off on posting my personal thoughts on this stuff for a number of reasons. Probably the greatest of those being that I had been drinking (Oh Bungie, you drove me to drink...LOL! Its funny but true! XD ) and obviously was in no fit state to be giving any sort of proper feedback. The other reason, upon finally getting sober, was that I felt the need to just take a sit back, relax and let all the information just sorta brew for a bit. Reflect upon it all.
That being said, I'll be giving my honest thoughts on all this.
[b][THE GOOD][/b]
It would be unfair of me to judge something and render a verdict if I did not also include the positives. Such being the case, I feel it wise to cover the good points and changes that Bungie has made with respect to Destiny's new expansion.
[b]1:[/b] "Vault Space"- This was obviously intended to be the highlight of the stream, it kept being alluded to the entire time. The storage has been doubled which is something many have been pushing for a LOT. And when I say many? I mean MANY. Pretty sure media outlets have even talked about it as well. I personally don't ever suffer from a lack of space, but there are hardcore collectors out there who greatly needed it and this definitely benefits them.
[b]2:[/b] "Character Levels"- Light no longer determines your actual level. This is excellent because now players have more of a reason to go around killing things. As with any game that has a leveling/exp system, the greatest joy is always in getting that "Level Up" which puts a smile on your face.
[b]3:[/b] "Marks"- Combing the Vanguard and Crucible Marks into a single currency was smart since now folks don't HAVE to force themselves to play PvP if they want to get stuff from the Crucible Vendors and vice versa. You also remove that annoying Weekly Limit which seriously made no sense originally. Its also cross characters, so people can now use a single toon to build up their other Guardians.
[b]4:[/b] "Class Items and Ghosts"- Holy crap, they ACTUALLY both do something now outside of just looking pretty. I remember players back like, within the first couple weeks of the game having first launched giving their own feedback and making suggestions that these items should play an actual role in the game. Nice to see this welcome change.
[b]5:[/b] "Exotic Blueprints"- I love the concept of the Blueprints itself, being able to have an actual collection list so that once you get them you will always have them.
[b][THE BAD][/b]
ALRIGHT! So probably the part of this post that most were wanting to see the most. (Bungie too?) Now there were a few other things that I personally thought were considered good but I didn't think were a big deal enough to make the above list. Unfortunately, despite all the various positives with the TTK, there is one very LARGE glaring negative which is just so monumentally huge that these redeeming qualities just don't manage to make up for in the least. Said issue had me so ridiculously furious that I needed to distance myself for everything Destiny related and then proceeded to drink the rest of the night in hopes of improving my mood. (For anyone curious: it proved to be a success)
BUT FIRST! I think it worth mentioning this as well...
[b]1:[/b] "Lack of Details"- I honestly re-watched the live stream like...5 times. No joke. I did this because I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any bits of information or being confused about what I was hearing. And I have to say, while you guys did reveal quite a bit, you also created more questions as well in regards to the stuff you were trying to explain. I'll be making another post however to cover this since it goes hand in hand with an entirely other kettle of fish.
[b]2:[/b] I'm not even going to prime this one with a title. Pretty sure most already know what the "big thing" is that I was talking about. The one thing you would think should have been counted among the list of positives.
INFUSION...
Now, to be totally fair, I think the system of Infusion is brilliant. Gotta give credit where credit is due. However, [b]IT IS TOTALLY COMPLETELY WASTED AS PRESENTED![/b] This new system being introduced SCREAMS Gear Ascension, and is obviously a re-imagined concept inspired by Etheric Light. And yet, despite that, I can't help but wonder WHY it doesn't also apply to all Year 1 content? And now I have to say "content" instead of Legendary because the Exotics are also being included in that as well.
Allow me to elaborate. [b]MANY PLAYERS HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR CONTINUED GEAR ASCENSION FOR ALL YEAR 1 LEGENDARY WEAPONS AND ARMOR FOR MONTHS[/b]. It is quite obviously a big deal for people. Now, I feel it worth mentioning that for said months, there were those either disagreeing or flatout trolling anyone on the forums who shared this opinion. Why? Because those people already did not care about the Legendary Weapons and Armor. They had already made the conscious decision that once TTK came out that they would be getting rid of their old gear. However, now that Year 1 Exotics are also in that same boat, NOW is magically important enough to have continued Gear Ascension. NOW its something worth complaining about or making petitions for all because it now impacts them.
Why am I bringing this up? To illustrate a point. People don't like feeling as if they have wasted their time. The general consensus is that Year 1 was nothing more than a $100 Beta. You acquired data from the players and our feedback and then used that information to design TTK. And so everyone is under the impression that this means the game we got is going to be improving and getting better, right? Only problem there is that you really aren't improving so much as it seems you're just burying it in the sands of time to serve as nothing more than a far distant memory.
Players spent hundreds of hours replaying the same content over and over again as intended, as designed with the emphasis being focused on acquiring new weapons and armor (Legendary and Exotic alike). When Dark Below came out and the vanilla Legendary Gear was given no option to upgrade, the masses gave an uproar, turned volatile and for many (myself included) outright quit the game. It wasn't until with House of Wolves and the introduction of Etheric Light that many of us came back to Destiny with the prospect of having value returned to our old gear that we worked hard for to get.
But now with TTK, its the Dark Below all over again. As I have argued already in this post: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/146511648/0/0
Those who are now feeling the sting from the Year 1 Exotics not being brought forward, you are NOW understanding how the rest of us feel. Now, turning my attention back to Bungie, I need you to understand that people have lives. And not in the sense of day to day activity. Your team doesn't have much experience when it comes to games like this, so let me explain an important point to you.
When it comes to online games that are ongoing like this, people make the choice to commit themselves to it. Humans have finite life spans. It is the greatest motivation in our existence. Destiny is said to be a 10 year game, meaning you are basically asking every player here to give [b]10 YEARS[/b] of their life to you and your game. Any time spent playing this game is time that people are choosing to invest, time that could go to any number of other things. Their time, [b]THEIR LIFE ON THIS EARTH[/b], is a form of currency [b]MORE VALUABLE[/b] than any amount of money.
People want something in exchange for their time, for the price they paid in more ways than one. They associate this more often than not with the rewards they acquired. The Vault of Glass. Crota's End. Trials of Osiris. Prison of Elders. Strikes. The Crucible. All these have rewards to be earned, goals that players consciously worked towards.
Whether it be that Exotic they spent so long searching for or that Legendary they religiously played the Raids non-stop to find, the [b]PROOF OF INVESTMENT IS ATTACHED TO THE REWARDS[/b]. Making Year 1 Legendary and Exotic Weapons/Armor obsolete by not allowing them to be further ascended/infused disrespects that investment and insults their choice to play the game in the first place.
Yes, "[i]Year 1 Gear will have a place in Year 1 content[/i]" [b]IS CONSIDERED AN INSULT[/b]. People didn't grind Vault of Glass to get gear so that they could just continue repeating that raid over and over again. No. They got these weapons and armors because they were looking to bring those things with them going forward into the future of the game. That is why it is called Time Investment. It is a natural, psychological aspect hardwired into every Human being. It becomes more prevalent in older people, though and starts to kick in around your 20s or 30s especially if you're the sort who works a full-time job and you, like so many others in the world, deal with an enormous amount of stress in your day to day life.
In conclusion? The Infusion System should apply to everything. Its brilliant, the concept itself is beautiful. But as it stands now, it fails to realize its full potential to be what can actually DRIVE Destiny to go its full 10 years with all of us still playing it. Because if you give everyone the choice to build their characters the way they want to without said restrictions, not only will you improve the quality of your game but you will also ensure that their invested time is not only respected, but appreciated.
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This isnt really feedback about the stream nor the update as the entire second half is complaining about a basic mmo concept, albeit done poorly in this game.
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Too long someone give me the clipnotes. I'd read this novel if I wasn't so tired atm, but if some could hit with a highlighter that'd just be great.
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At the end of the day, as long as I'm level 40 by day one and I have all the relevant weapons at the highest level as I did the last dlc and the weapons and armor are equivalent to all the load outs I have now for all 3 characters, I'll be fine. If however I have to spend time waiting because I'm capped day one until the following week and this goes on for months in order for me to play a raid, then it's really not worth more effort. These restrictions hurt the poe gamer, not the pvp gamer the most. And the grind to get where I'm at now won't be repeated each time Bungie decides to "fix" something Vault space is now irrelevant. All weapons are useless. No one in the right mind would save anything going foward. And, the changes have already started. Yesterday, I actually saw white armor drop in pvp and poe with odd looking damage stats. Guns are behaving differently and so is the armor and xp level is listed. Suttle differences I've detected since my last update a few weeks ago. I've deleted dozens of guns I was excited to use with the gun update. Now, no point. They are useless in poe. All the requests to ascend year one is and will go nowhere. All that's left now is how painful will the new system be since we are all wiping year 1. Love the game, hate the inconsistencies. Makes it difficult to plan strategies.
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I would be happy if we can infuse year 1 gear to upgrade year 2 gear. It feels wrong to dismantle my favorite guns for parts.
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Edited by Noble Palidin: 8/21/2015 1:08:18 PMI really don't understand why infusion wouldn't apply to year one gear. I know people at Bungie have played and grinded just as we did. I just hope that Bungie is able to stand up to Activision. And make Destiny the way it was supposed to be before Joe left. They certainly know that making year one content obsolete is bad marketing.
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Well i want to add something too. This game designed for loot, everything related to how to get that weapon or that armor. You play, you grind to get that armor/weapon. Last stream showed us more grind, and how to get more legendary weapons etc. Basically everything showed up defines how to get loot. Maps are same, except new patrol place which we don't know anything yet. Strikes are same, except new ones. Patrol, same. Enemies, same. End game content, same except new raid. So, we have new guns, we have to use new guns according to Bungie, at same locations with same enemies another year. Do you ever think about this guys? How big content TTK has? I doubt it will be huge enough to spent a year. TTK seems for new players, start from lvl 1, upgrade to 40 with new story line, quests etc. How it will turned out for a lvl 34 guardian from year1? It will be finished in a week.
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Edited by Jarac Rassen: 8/21/2015 12:33:32 PMYuuuup! Seriously, Year 1 was just pointless. It would have been far better to be a Year 2 player and get the completed game for less and ability to level up to 25 (and skip the atrocious "story") than be a Year 1 player that had to suffer with the constant BS from the year-long Beta. There's no respect for Year 1 players (unless it's a damn emblem, lol). Remember when Deej said "Year One players will get something better than Year 2 players"? Well, he lied. Our "reward" is shelling out $40 more dollars for Year One fixes (should have been there at launch or at least patched) and content that is said to be bigger than the Dark Below (not a great bar to set). Our "reward" is burying the weapons we put up with BS RNG for because, hey, it was all a beta. Screw Destiny, screw Bungie, screw Activision. I'm just done for good.
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Such a great post, again! Thanks for you time buddy, to write all this. I totally feel you and its now really time for them to do something about it, directly!
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Bump! #saveourexotics
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https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/148282318/0/0
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I agree wholeheartedly with your [b]Good v Bad[/b] list. The Infusion systems seems to do exactly the opposite of what they "learned" after TDB. I have an inkling that all exotics will eventually be able to be included in this. Probably some time in 2016 because they'll want us all to grind the new content til we are blue in the face.
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Bumpity bump bump
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Petition to allow infusion on year 1 legendary weapons: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/148284067
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Big ol bump for you, couldn't agree more and have been saying the same steadily. And to all You trolls saying it's time to move on, just don't get it....Destiny isn't exactly overflowing with things to do, and making items irrelevant that are only obtainable thru specific activities by default makes those activities irrelevant too. Me personally, haven't used my FB in quite some time, BUT since I am overflowing with etheric light, you bet I still jump in to VoG 1-3x a week for my chance to score a Praetorian Foil since it's still currently viable, and if it were to have a chance to be 'infused' with TTK, I'd still be trying for it, but since it won't, no more VoG in reality.
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Encourage attachment to weapons through various gameplay mechanisms (RNG, time consuming grinding, seething hatred of the Cryptarch)? Check! Devalue the aforementioned attachment (and the related time and effort invested) in an attempt to push upcoming DLC content? Check! Hit the reset button while passing it off as progress? ...I smell a "check" coming on. I'm not saying that you can't have a game where existing equipment can never be left behind ... but when that equipment comprises the bulk of the content that you're pushing as what defines the game ... well, you can only can only sell the same "new and improved" shampoo with a different label for so long before that lather, rinse and repeat cycle becomes apparent as nothing but a way to sell more of the same old shampoo.
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Malphistos feedback is too long More VS= im buying ttk That and weapon balance were all i wanted, the content looks good
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[quote]When it comes to online games that are ongoing like this, people make the choice to commit themselves to it. Humans have finite life spans. It is the greatest motivation in our existence. Destiny is said to be a 10 year game, meaning you are basically asking every player here to give 10 YEARS of their life to you and your game. Any time spent playing this game is time that people are choosing to invest, time that could go to any number of other things. Their time, THEIR LIFE ON THIS EARTH, is a form of currency MORE VALUABLE than any amount of money.[/quote] Man... Am I allowed to say that you're full of shit? :-D Your paragraph defines the term drama-queen for me. It's not 10 years.. it's whatever time you choose to spent/waste on playing a fvcking video game. I'm one of those full-time job in their 30's people.. and I'm mature enough to not attach too much value to pixels. You do make some valid points and I would prefer that Bungie just states the real reason for the year-1-left-behind-stuff (which probably is: the shit we designed is impossible to balance and/or we want the loot-hamster-wheel to keep turning). But you take this stuff waaaaaaaay to serious... the whole destiny experience costs as much as one fill-up of your car... (at least where I live). I made friends, had a lot of fun and I will voice my opinion if stuff stinks... but your display here is somewhat ridiculous.
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ALL THIS, HUGE BUMP from me
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Good stuff man, look out for the ban hammer though, the holder of said hammer will have SS clearly displayed on his black uniform.
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Bump for later...
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Edited by Grumpy N Old: 8/21/2015 2:20:05 PMI feel the same way. Some of the improvements they showed us made me want to get TTK, but I keep coming back to how angry I am at being duped into playing a year long beta with nothing to show at the end but some memories and some stickers. In other news, Halo MCC is working well now. Been wrecking it in some SWAT. Thinking I might just wait for Halo 5 and give 343 my money instead. Blizzard did this same crap and it cost them half their subscribers. I'm thinking I'm still out. Burn me twice, shame on me. BUMP BUMP BUMP.
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Edited by Decipher: 8/21/2015 12:13:56 PMYou've pretty much covered everything Mal, there are other issues too such us price and the fact that to get theyre so called vip rewards,we have to buy the dlc for them to give that to us(Basically all vanilla players are not considered as legends that helped because we didnt spend 40 bucks for this game)but thats for another topic. We really need to step up our game and change this, and like we already said if this don't stop this is gonna be the future of gaming.
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Bump!
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