Update- After [b]months[/b] of Bungie decidedly ignoring this issue, and this topic [i]specifically[/i], I completely stopped posting almost 2 months ago. However, I still feel like I can't let this discussion fade, just yet, given it's obvious effects on [i]future[/i] Destiny games. Everything I felt when writing this so many months ago STILL matters to me- despite the fact that I quit the game 6 months ago... So, I'm pretty sure it's still worth discussing. :P
[quote]Bungie Weekly Update 12/04/2014:
"In the months to come, your quest to become more powerful will have more avenues that lead to satisfaction. [b][u]The last thing we wanted was for you to look at your favorite gun or helmet and decide that it had become obsolete.[/u][/b] Since the reveal, we’ve read a lot of ideas for how this could have been done better. Your feedback is clear: [b][u]The time you have invested in your stuff should be respected[/u][/b]."[/quote]
[quote](From Tyson Green via the 8-19 TTK stream, on the topic of Infusion)
We're really trying to deliver on people being able to find things that they're excited about and keep them and customize their character[/quote]
This isn't just about Bungie making design choices that harm the player; it's about them doing it [i]twice[/i], after explicitly stating they wouldn't do it [i]again[/i]. On top of that, it even goes against their own, outspoken design goals [i]for[/i] TTK, which is absurd.
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(TL;DR at the end)
Disclaimer!
[spoiler]I'm very excited to acquire [i]new[/i] gear in TTK, and I'm in no way trying to discourage players from "moving on" to new gear. All I'm trying to argue is that players should have the [i][u]option[/u][/i] to do so, on [i]their[/i] terms.
With that said...[/spoiler]
I keep seeing arguments in [i]favor[/i] of Bungie's decision to phase out Year 1 weapons, generally based on people's experiences in games of the MMO variety.
Now, I understand that from a purely MMO background, players don't see any issue with leaving old gear behind in favor of new, better gear, because that's how MMOs operate. However, Destiny is [i]not[/i] an MMO (at least from a combat perspective, which is what I'm basing my arguments on), and shouldn't be treated as such for a number of reasons.
Main point-[quote]1. Weapons in Destiny have a [i]much[/i] more direct impact on player experience. Weapons in MMOs are little more than "stat sticks," with virtually no impact on gameplay other than increasing a player's DPS abilities; point, click, repeat.
Destiny, on the other hand, is an FPS, and as such, choosing a weapon is infinitely more personal and important to players. Even if you only like [i]one[/i] class of weapon, there's still a ton of options to sort through; impact, fire rate, stability, perk set- even the [i]aesthetics[/i] of a weapon play a part in the overall [i]feel[/i] of a weapon.
As such, it's a pretty shallow argument to tell players like me to "get used to it" when weapons become obsolete because "that's how MMOs work." This isn't an MMO, and my gun of choice is way more important to my experience than any DPS "stat stick" could ever be (sentimental value notwithstanding, of course).[/quote]
Secondary point-[quote]2. Destiny's expansions have a bad habit of [i]replacing[/i] content, not [i]adding[/i]. And they happen MUCH more frequently than any MMO expansion; each new DLC essentially removes old gear from the game, replacing it with "better" gear [u]across the board[/u].
Why the hell should I pay for new gear that will be outdated in [i]a few months[/i]?! I payed for it, I grinded for it, I upgraded it, and I [i]kept it[/i]. This game is built on grinding for gear, and I've accepted that! But why would any sane gamer continue to grind if their efforts are [i]consistently[/i] invalidated? What's the point? Especially after the 2.0 patch effectively [i]already balanced Y1 gear to exist alongside Y2 gear in PvP.[/i] If the gear is "balanced" enough for PvP, than any claims the "Y1 gear is too powerful" are null and void, and PvE players are getting pissed on for no reason. Everything has been primed and readied to be included into the Y2 ecosystem, yet it's still left behind.
The only reason this didn't bother me as much up to this point was because my old gear stayed useful, and became special because of its decreased availability; proof that I was here from the beginning. The idea of playing 'Destiny 3,' and still being able to pull out my Vanilla weapons in future battles is an [i]awesome[/i] prospect. It would give weight to all the adventures I've been on, all the awesome feats I've accomplished, and continually validate and distinguish all my efforts to [i]become legend[/i], as they say. :P[/quote]
EDIT- I didn't touch on this in my initial post, and I absolutely should have;
[quote]3. Most [i]console[/i] games don't go through major overhauls, because new mechanics and balance choices tend to get implemented in [i]sequels[/i]. An "expansion" in WoW is essentially the MMO equivalent of a [i]sequel[/i], not just an add-on. There is no "WoW 2," because Blizzard's "10 year plan" for the game was intended to exist in a single game economy for its entire lifespan. Because of that, it makes more sense for its expansions to overhaul the game in more impactful ways, because they take the place of proper sequels.
"Destiny: The Taken King" is [i]not[/i] "Destiny 2." As big as it might be, it's still an add-on to Destiny "1," as it were, and I think people should view it as such. If Bungie wants to reset the entire game, and start from scratch, [i]so be it[/i], but they should do that [i]in the next game[/i].[/quote]
TL;DR:
1. Destiny's weapons are [i]infinitely[/i] more meaningful to players than any MMO weapons could ever hope to be, in that they actually have a direct impact on how they play the game; they're more than just stat-increases.
2. And, seeing as how Bungie choses to remove old gear from the loot table with every DLC, thus shrinking gear options, the [i]only[/i] way to keep any sort of gear diversity in Destiny, as well as validate all the effort player's put into the game, would be to bring old gear forward, [i]period[/i]. ESPECIALLY considering that the 2.0 patch [i]already[/i] re-balanced Y1 gear to better match Y2 effectiveness, so what's the hold up? If it's "balanced" enough for PvP, then it's sure as Hell balanced enough for PvE!
3. "Expansions" in MMORPGs typically take the place of traditional [i]sequels[/i], which makes it more understandable that they would bring major overhauls to the game; TTK is definitely an [i]add-on[/i], not a sequel. Destiny [i]will[/i] have a proper [i]sequel[/i] in the future (confirmed in production), and if Bungie is determined to completely level the playing field for gear, that's fine, but they should do that [i]in the sequel[/i].
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Greatest post on forums award goes to you. Props. Well deserved bump. Etc
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Bumped
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You're more than welcome to keep using all of your old stuff, just expect to be picked last on the playground.
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Don't complaint if you don't wanna be told to move on...when will you babies be satisfied,never my guess.
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Cry About it. You're going to make new favorites.
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Destiny is NOT a pure FPS either. It uses established concepts from the genres of FPS, MMO and RPG. The much bigger picture here is that of all sci-fi battles. A new big bad arrives and old weapons are of little to no use anymore. New powers and new weapons need to be created to stand a chance against the new threat.
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I'm just a random destiny player so what's my opinion but I'm all for the weapons growing as the game grows but I like having the option of picking and choosing my load out based on what's grown on me as things grow like in vanilla destiny I used Jolders hammer/thunderlord when tdb came out I replaced it with the hunger the when HoW came out I used radagast/tomorrow's answer and the baller horn that's the type of progression I like the game grew and I adapted but I still have the option to use weapons I've had but that's just one guardians opinion
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So you say it's not an mmo fine I can accept that, BUT don't compare it to another mmo then. Hypocrite...
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I have no problem leaving my raid weapons behind. But you can be sure, in destiny year 10, when our weapons are doing 9000 damage, I'll still have my 365 Swarm and 365 supremacy and 365 v8.
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No thanks. [spoiler]Move on[/spoiler]
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WHY IS EVERYONE STILL COMPLAINING! You can upgrade your guns by sacrificing another.
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Edited by StringingPilot: 8/6/2015 2:48:59 AMMOVE OOOOAHOAHNNNNN MOVE ON MOVE, WHEN YOUR BEING A LITTLE BITCH AND YEAR TWO IS UPON, JUST MOVE OOOOOOAHOON, NOONE CARES FOR YOUR FATEEEBTINGEERRRRR, JUST MOOVE OON OOON, JUST MOVE ON MOVE ON [spoiler]10+ musics if you know the song[/spoiler]
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I don't want to play with same purple weapons till year 10 . now exotics yes .
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Move on from your guns [spoiler]( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)[/spoiler]
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Move on from your guns [spoiler]fgt[/spoiler]
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You have never played Borderlands have you?
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I have to "move on" from my adept weapons I have had for only a month
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Never thought about it this way, cool
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Edited by Bracus Spungus(Adept): 8/6/2015 3:38:08 AMYour not understanding WHY bungie are doing this. When you said their 'replacing content' is not 'adding content' What do you mean, They add gear with every dlc, and at the same time, replace the old. Its not about moving on, its about adapting, adapting to every update, every dlc etc. If you cant adapt then stop playing. You have validated your effort into getting those guns. Because YOU got to use them when they were relevant, when they were good. Something year 2 players wont get to experience, they will get a fatebringer, but wont have the same enjoyment and excitement for getting the weapons like that, us year one players did. We got to experience the thrill of using those weapons in their prime. Now its time to do that again, not carry the same crutch weapons through all this new content. Think of it this way, do you really want to be pulling a blackhammer from your ass for every single boss fight? Do you want to be pulling out a fatebringer when shit is getting to difficult instead of think of alternative ways to counter the situation? It is dull and boring, even if you got to carry all your guns into year 2 you will be bored as -blam!- using them compared to something thats new,fun and unique.
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I've always been in favor of having one or two weapons that were allowed to come with you throughout your journey. A weapon that stays relevant by being able to be upgraded to keep up with the scaling of future content. Let's say...a piece of material akin to Etheric Light that turns your Legendary weapon or armor into "Legacy" weapon or armor. But limit it to one piece of material per character or something. However, I think it's Bungie's responsibility to make it worth my while to use and cherish new weaponry. Give me a legit reason to drop the old gear and use the new stuff. Make the new weaponry fun to use. Make it aesthetically pleasing. Make weapons that are truly unique. Yes, it sucks knowing that the hours I've spent grinding to get and level up weapons is kinda gone to waste with each new expansion. However, if the weapons and armor are awesome, fun to use, and cool to look at? Makes that bitter pill a little easier to swallow.
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I'd feel better about it if... Hardlight got the arc damage element from fatebringer. And Mida got solar burn from vision of confluence. Make those two exotics feel exotic. I feel as though both should be elemental exotics.
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Year two is coming whether you like it or not. If you want to continue playing this game, then move on. If not, then go play another game.
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Move on can't wait until they are all obsolete!
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Move on
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Hopefully they hear the complaints and we can take our weapons from now on but they can't do anything about it now. They've already started making shit weaker months ago like taking field scout from us on hmg's
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Move on