I agree 100% with Malphisto. And furthermore, if TTK involves no longer allowing ascension of Year One gear I am done with this game. I have put over 3000 hours in on 2 profiles but I will remove the game from my Xbox HDD if you do that. Period. I took 3 characters to rank 5 in Iron Banner last week. I WANT to love this game, but since hearing that every second I played it last week and every second I play it between now and 9/15 , and every other of the 10 million plus OTHER seconds I've played so far for that matter has been and will be a complete waste of time I haven't even loaded it. I'm betting your server traffic is an indication that I'm not alone in this decision... For the first time in nearly a year I'm playing OTHER games and all my friends that played Iron Banner with me last week are too. Here's a tip you greedy jerks. It's NOT all about the new players. Yeah, I know you stand to make more money off new blood, but if you don't keep some of us around there will BE no base to make your game great and lasting. To make it anything more than a traded disappointment. A flash-in-the-pan monument to poor corporate decision making. Did it ever occur to you that all you have to do if you want us to stop using the Thorns and the Gjallerhorns we worked so hard to get is put something BETTER or MORE INTERESTING into the arsenal? You don't have to jerk them away from us and spit on us with your new more powerful Green crap. All this wishy washy flip-flopping with nerfs and buffs, really just makes you look like you are incapable of getting it right. What kind of sense does it make to bother nerfing ANYTHING if you're just going to wipe it all anyway? I'm OK with nerfing the Thorn's DoT. To be honest getting killed by that has been annoying and the only reason I play with it instead of my Fatebringer is because if you can't beat 'em you might as well join 'em. It IS way overpowered. But the Gjallerhorn? Here's a concept, make Wolfpack rounds an available perk on OTHER rocket launchers. And while we're on the subject, why is the frickin' Thorn the ONLY GUN IN THE GAME WITH DoT???? THINK, man! THINK! I don't play with the guns I do because they have high damage ratings. I play with them because they fit my playing style. They're fun to work with. I ground your Raids SO many times. I have three maxed copies of almost all the Raid weapons. I have three Gjallerhorns (5 if you counted the 2 I've broken down along the way). I ground and ground and it was all for nothing because the nanny state developers at Bungie have decided that a few whiny little kids in Mommy's garages need some freshness because they don't want to put the time in to get the good stuff. You want fresh, get off the couch and go take a shower. Me, I'm OK with some freshness in ADDITION to all the cool stuff I've learned to play with and love. But I want all the work I've done to build a collection of weapons that are fun to shoot crybaby newbs with not to amount to a lot of wasted time. I can promise you this. If that IS what happens, I won't waste a minute more of my life on THIS game. I certainly won't buy your 3rd DLC. I'll bid you adieu and move on. I'll just have to fall in love with Halo or Elder Scrolls again. A lot of the trolls proclaiming their happiness about this slap in the face to the base are people who weren't here from the beginning. When the VoG was the only Raid it was pretty lame but we kept at it because we were all hoping the DLC would increase the amount of fun stuff to do. But then when you released TDB and there was no ascension, the game got pretty lame because nobody wanted to play VoG anymore. What was the point? So we were back to where we started. Playing a game with one Raid. Then HoW came out and BOOM!!! It was fun again. You could get parties together to run BOTH the old Raids AND PoE and Trials. VoG is fun. TDB is fun. PoE is sorta fun. If you do this, it will literally be impossible to get anybody to put in the effort, so we're back to playing a game with one Raid and worse because most of the people I have been playing with all this time, who stuck it out all this time have said basically what I'm saying. If they do this, we're done. Moving on to something else. 'I hope Halo 5 is good.' Heard that a few times this week. 'Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of playing a game with no trading system anyway.' Right? 'Come play Elder Scrolls Online. You can TRADE!' Hard to argue with that. I have several guns in my vault that my friends want, just hoping for the day you let us share our stuff. But you're definitely going the other direction it looks like. Out with old. In with the new. Boo. What these trolls don't realize is that what you're talking about doing isn't just taking the guns and armor we love away and forcing us to eat your new crap. You're taking away most of the content of Year One TOO. Good luck getting your friends to help you grind to GET your Fatebringer or your Fang, new kid. Ain't happenin'. Grinding for a Fatebringer was a big PART of Year One. Now my kids will never have the pleasure. The biggest complaint I've heard about this game, from the beginning, AD NAUSEUM is that you have to do the same crap over and over again. That there isn't enough to do. That was true up until HoW. Then it kinda wasn't after HoW. Now it looks like it's gonna be again. The way to FIX that isn't to take away all the old. It's to ADD TO IT. I'm tired of lesser minds deciding my fate (so wanted to say Destiny) and even lesser minds defending it because they're too lazy to grind for the good stuff. And honestly, if this is the reward we get for grinding so hard for all that time, just to have our prizes jerked away like this, can you possibly be stupid enough to think we'll stick around and do it all over again and more, PAY you for the pleasure? If our efforts are wasted, do we keep wasting them? Really? This will end your credibility with a lot of the community. Honestly, just the THREAT of this ends a lot of your credibility with me. OK, so NOW you say we can ascend our favorites, but how about the NEXT dlc? You need to retract this crap NOW. 'Oops, sorry, we're dumb'. And FURTHER, you need to PROMISE this subject doesn't come up again. I'm with Malphisto, this should not even be a DISCUSSION ITEM. Ridiculous breach of trust. Why are we still even talking about this? Trolls keep comparing this game to WoW. Moronic. In WoW you literally have a BAZILLION things to choose from and a BAZILLION unique things to do each with new and interesting rewards. You don't like your gear? CHANGE IT! You don't spend enough time with any of it to CARE that much about it. AND YOU CAN TRADE! Destiny is NOT like WoW at ALL. There's not NEARLY enough content in this game for you to ditch the old. PLUS, that's exactly why a LOT of WoW players quit playing WoW and a lot of other games like it. 'Well, they took my fun away and now they're making me grind for this new crap that sucks. Deuces.' Maybe the new stuff won't suck, but at this point, in light of the HoW gear, my hope meter is at an all time low, and even if it DOESN'T suck, what if I'd really RATHER play with the guns I've mastered. They're extensions of me now. Don't chop my hands off and tell me it will be OK because you'll sew some new ones on that I'll get used to in time and then expect me to stick around for the next chop. Maybe that's cool with you, if we don't stick around. But if so, you're not looking at the big picture. Most of the dissenters to this position say, "I'm OK with it because I'm kinda getting bored with the old gear ANYWAY." So give THEM some new stuff to play with. If it's good maybe WE'LL start playing with it too. I fail to see how letting US keep our Raid weapons in any way prevents THEM from enjoying all the new stuff you have in store for them. You don't like the old, play with the new. You don't like the new, too bad, you already had to delete all your old stuff to make room in your tiny little vault for all this new stuff you don't even like. Cheers. I wouldn't wait too long to make up your mind and announce that you've made a horrible miscalculation either. That 'you listened to us' and decided not to be scumbags. The longer I play something else, the less likely I am to care WHAT you decide. I can't remember ever going back and playing an old game after I've moved on to something else, but then again, I've never put so many hours into a game before either. Who can know? Speculate on that. You say you listen. I'm hoping you do. I haven't bought your TTK dlc, though I was about to before your little revelations this week. I won't buy it unless you change this. I know that nearly everyone I play with will either be abstaining or seeking a refund for it and are already moving on in their minds to other things. I hope you make the right choice. It's getting really hard to defend my love for this game.

I'm back!!!! Bump

Due to Bungie's lack of talent, they are making weapons virtually identical to the previous weapons in terms of use, but they're going to increase the damage stat to give them a purpose, making all the old stuff obsolete. Brilliant... Not. This also completely destroys the aesthetic purposes of armor, and this game seems to be very aesthetically focused, ships and shaders for example.

Bump

I read somewhere that some drunk destiny insider said that after they made everyone's raid gear irrelevant when DB dropped, they learned not to do that again. I think they didn't. Perhaps because they still are making money, they are not learning the lessons of the past. "We did this before and they got through it..." I am interested to see how long it will take before people stop buying this franchise.

Bump

[quote]They made the entire first year of this game completely pointless and a giant waste of time. You spent how many hours playing to get Legendary/Raid Weapons and Armor? You spent how many hours getting Etheric Light to ascend gear? You spent how many hours farming resource nodes in patrols? GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND GRIND!!! Destiny was nothing but a Grind. This is how they justified their lack of content. This is the excuse people who defended the game would use when people said the game was boring and lacked content. They needed a way to keep YOU and ME engaged with the game past the fail story missions, so what did they do? They made it a "Loot Driven Game" with RNG designed so that players WANT to spend hours and hours going back and redoing the SAME ACTIVITIES over and over and over and over again for the SOLE PURPOSE of acquiring enough Vanguard/Crucible Marks to get those Legendary Weapons and Armor from the vendors. For the SOLE PURPOSE of going through and beating the Vault of Glass and Crota's End to get that Raid Only stuff. And why? Why did people do this? Because the vast majority believed what they were told. Believed that it wasn't a waste of time. The Dark Below was a precursor to this, and many quit the game as a result when they tried doing it then as well. It should be no surprise that people would be pissed off, because they already attempted this and everyone had the exact same reaction to it before. That's why they introduced Etheric Light in House of Wolves, and that is the main primary reason for many who decided to come back to Destiny. But its just a huge slap to the face, though. Regardless. Because even after they give us Etheric Light, which became the center focus of HoW for the Prison of Elders? They now suddenly decide that they're going to take that away and no longer continue doing it going forward. Really? And they don't expect people to be pissed off or rather they are confused that there is such strong negativity towards all of it? Basically, TTK is entirely a different game from what we got. The video above details this perfectly. Year 1 just never happened. Bungie is just sweeping that shit under the rug. Which is fine, that's whatever. I agree, the first year of Destiny was a piece of garbage and should be burned and pissed on. But what about all of us morons who spent $100+ on it? What do WE get out of all that? They -blam!-ed up, they made all these mistakes and had all these problems with the game. So why do WE have to suffer for it? Why do WE get screwed over because of it? TTK would not have even been if not for us who paid into the franchise already, and yet nothing is really being done for us. We're being disrespected in the most assholish way possible by Bungie/Activision. That Year 1 Triumphs thing isn't worth shit. An Emblem? Don't care. A black Shader and Sparrow? What good are those? Those are cosmetic items that generally ALWAYS get replaced by something else. Prime example, I have the God of War shader which I love, why would I replace that? For some vain attempt to try and garner respect from total strangers new to the game? No, that's silly. I want continued ascension. This shouldn't even be up for debate. You put Etheric Light in and people were still grinding and getting the new weapons and armor for both Dark Below and House of Wolves DESPITE having the ability to further upgrade their old shit. [b]SO QUITE CLEARLY PEOPLE WILL STILL USE NEW WEAPONS AND ARMOR EVEN WITH BEING ABLE TO CONTINUE ASCENDING THEIR OLD SHIT.[/b] We ALSO see [b]PROOF[/b] that you can in fact add to the replay value of activities by using Gear Ascension as a mechanic for such. People WILL spend hours taking on very difficult challenges to be able to do so. There is nothing at all wrong with this and it obviously gives people more shit to do in the game. How is that a [i]BAD[/i] thing? You can be excited for TTK all you want. The problem here is Bungie's decisions regarding Year 1 content and how they are basically eliminating any sense of true progression by not respecting the amount of time and effort invested in the game. Fact is, YES, this DOES actually matter and YES, this IS a big deal to MANY players who WILL be quitting the game because of this and only further destroy the game's reputation along with that of Bungie who clearly don't give two shits about player feedback like they claim that they do. You all remember this interview? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3DLTPQwB10 Fast forward to 4:27 where DeeJ talks about increasing Vault space because they acknowledge players want to be collectors and hold onto their stuff. That you can bring the Guardian you've created with you into Destiny 2 and going forward. Hate to tell you this, Bungie, BUT THAT INCLUDES OUR GEAR AS WELL! God -blam!-ing DAMMIT MAN! WHY DO YOU MAKE IT SO HARD FOR PEOPLE TO ENJOY THIS GAME!? SERIOUSLY! YOU ARE YOUR GREATEST OBSTACLE FOR DESTINY! You take one step forward and then two steps back. And it wasn't even YOU who announced this, instead we gotta find out from Game Informer? What the -blam!- is that all about? You ask us for our feedback, we give it to you and then what happens? We get Weekly Updates where YOU tell US how WE feel about things. You guys are putting out a shit ton of weapons. Good for you, here's a cookie. People are going to obviously go out and get that shit REGARDLESS of still being able to continue ascending all their old shit. The [b]POINT[/b] is that it [b]NEEDS TO BE A CHOICE THAT PLAYERS MAKE ON THEIR OWN NOT SOMETHING THAT IS DECIDED FOR THEM![/b] Period. [b]EDIT: As anyone can see looking through these comments, its a very divided subject. However, as I have pointed out to others? Continued Gear Ascension does not, in any way, shape or form hinder TTK or prevent players from getting and using the new stuff. Players will do so either way regardless. And when I ask people "would it really bother you if Year 1 weapons and armor could still ascend?" most generally don't respond to that or actually answer with "no, it wouldn't bother them" and of course it wouldn't. It wouldn't bother ANYONE because we ALREADY WENT THROUGH IT WITH HOUSE OF WOLVES. Etheric Light was done, its real, it happened. It didn't bother anyone, it didn't hurt the game in the least and a vast majority of players reacted quite positively to it. It won't hurt TTK. The only way it WILL hurt TTK is if you don't include it. Because people WILL leave. People WILL stop playing. You think that is silly? Screw you, that is YOUR opinion and obviously not how everyone else thinks. And THAT is the problem here, other people being arrogant and self-centered enough to think that they have a right to dictate how others should feel or think about something. That is WRONG, no matter how you look at it. YOU MUST RESPECT HOW OTHERS FEEL. There are many who have legitimate reasons for wanting to keep ascending their old stuff. It is THEIR RIGHT to feel that way. Deal with it. EDIT #2: For those asking, yes I have seen the IGN Interview with DeeJ. No, my opinion has not changed. It is insulting that Bungie's response to us about this is that "those weapons will always have a place for use in VOG" which is total bullshit. No one is going to keep and use the Fatebringer in Vault of Glass when there are other weapons that will have a higher damage value. More damage will always automatically mean making less stronger weapons obsolete by comparison. Old Legendary Weapons and Armor need to be able to continue ascending. That is how many of us feel, and that is not going to change. End of story.[/b][/quote]u can't tell anyone what to do an by the length of this go get a job u have no life obviously ur butt hurt over a game grow. Up little boy

Agreed. New stuff is fun. New stuff is great that being said making what we have now spent a year getting and savoring obsolete is horriffic. If players like the old let them cherish it and keep it viable. If they like new then....you get the picture. No reason force only one or the other on the community. Been an avid fan but I'm gonna end up cancelling preorder seeing as how if just wasted an entire year

Bump. There's no harm in keeping the existing system and allowing etheric light to continue to ascend year 1 weapons. It's more choices plain and simple. Unless TTK completely changes the meta. Is the game (now that there might be enough content) story and challenge driven now? Are we paying $40 for a 6 hour campaign? Or is it an hour with endless grinding like the base game and previous expansions?

Just seen THE vid this morning that is making the rounds, the cat is out of the bag, it shows exactly why Bungie have been so cagey about their massive (cough) NEW content, no more needs to be said on this subject, we can all see for ourselves the truth now, and Bungie are gonna be in full Damage control mode.

Ironically, they also lessen replay by not including ascencion. Will any veteran players or new players bother with the old raid if you are getting old damage weapons? No. And that is a MAJOR flaw in this decision as it's getting into raids which is the ultimate joy in this game. They are introducing one new raid for us, but the other two existing ones, and Prison of Elders, and Trials of Osiris, now become absolutely pointless.