[quote]Between now and September 15th, we’ll also explore a range of topics that we know are important to you, including weapon rebalancing, economy improvements, an overhauled quest experience, bounty enhancements, faction allegiances, end game content, and more.[/quote] Greetings fellow Guardians, As we were told in the 7/2/15 weekly update, Bungie will (possibly) tell us more about the above topics in the coming weeks. Before we are told what they think we feel on each of these subjects, I would like to explore some of these important community concerns in more detail. The first I would like to start off with is the issue of weapon rebalancing as this has pretty much dominated the forums since the release of VoG and the Vex Mythoclast. I'm going to explore the issue in my opinion and hopefully in the comments we can have actual discussions of differing opinions and not the [i]getgudscrubomgyourk/d[/i] nonsense that typically populate these threads. [u][b]Micro vs macro. Bungie's dilemma[/b][/u] So before Bungie even begin to debate internally how each weapon class and its various weapons can or should perform vs each other in the Crucible, I think that they first need to decide once and for all what they would like their PvP to be. The way Destiny is set up with us taking the weapons and armor that we find in game into the Crucible; it inherently creates an experience where there will be gear advantages and even op weapons. In such a system, overall balance is achieved not on a micro level of weapon to weapon, but on a macro level of the sheer number of options at our disposal to try to counter what our enemies throw at us. The alternative to this would be to balance on a micro level and, in a game where the entire reason for logging on is just to get better gear; this doesn't really sit well with equaling out the gear we find. There's not much point of getting better gear if it doesn't give you any better odds of success. In order to manage PvP down to that level of balance, the only real way to achieve it without breaking the core game philosophy would be to give us generic versions of weapon classes in PvP. We all use the same rocket launcher, hand cannon, AR, etc. [u][b]Pros and cons[/b][/u] Let's start with the current game setup of using our own weapons and achieving balance through the overall arsenal at our disposal. [i]The Pros:[/i] -It really incentivizes going out into the world and grinding to find your own great weapons to counter. -It's pretty kickass to find a new weapon in the world, level it up and try it out in PvP. And now with weapon reforging, it's possible to have a really unique version of a weapon that no one else has. -If you are willing to put in the time to run VoG or do the Thorn bounty, you are rewarded with weapons that have really unique perks that make them forces to be reckoned with. -By not micromanaging weapon balance and giving us all our different weapons classes, grenades, class abilities, weapon perks and supers, it allows us to figure out our overall strengths and weaknesses and challenges us to maximize our character classes and abilities. -It may be cliché, but the old saying is true, the only way to get better is to face better competition. It may not be fun to get smeared by someone who outguns you, but having to try harder and think smarter for a kill will only make you a better player. -It offers a true chance to prove your skill by outplaying better geared opponents. There is no greater feeling than to formulate a strategy and use the weapons at your disposal to beat better competition. -Iron Banner. When it's not a complete lag fest, it may be the most fun PvP mode in the game (though should be open for true discussion on doing a Clash Iron Banner too, but that's another day). [i]The cons:[/i] -It can be extremely frustrating to get killed by someone over and over, particularly if you believe it is just the weapon that is making the difference. -There may be weapons that you want that you feel are unattainable for you (Thorn bounty) or that just refuse to drop. -When a particular weapon gains a reputation as being strong in PvP, it has a tendency to over saturate play. -Perceived inequity between various weapons whether real or imagined have found their way into weapon patches that have not only affected the balance of PvP, but have significantly affected PvE as well and this is a real problem. Now let's take a look at micromanaging PvP and using generic weapon loadouts. [i]The pros:[/i] -No more excuses, no more advantages. An even test of skill vs an evenly geared opponent. -No having to run bounties, clear raids or grind anything to compete in PvP. -No chance for PvP balancing to affect the performance of weapons in PvE. [i]The Cons:[/i] -That generic AR you get in PvP may be a low impact/high RoF weapon and you like high impact/low RoF. You also aren't guaranteed to have any of the perks you like to run on weapons in PvP and this could put you at a disadvantage. -When you get a great new weapon in the game, you'll never know what it would be capable of in the Crucible vs live opponents. -Everyone complains now when they think too many people are using the same weapon, I'm not sure how generic weapons would make that any better. -Rather than having nerf Thorn posts, would we end up with just nerf hand cannon posts instead? [u][b]Moving forward with balancing[/b][/u] I don't think at this point that Bungie are going to put generic weapons in the Crucible, but I still wanted to put that out there as a way this game could have been designed. To an extent, I think that the system we have has worked and still works well in this game, but there are definitely issues that need to be addressed. First and foremost for me is the fact that Bungie are trying to micromanage a system that doesn't really support micromanagement. From the Vex nerf to Suros to the entire class of Auto Rifles, there is no real clear direction in how they want to approach PvP and this just leads to frustration for everyone. It's frustrating to people that see one weapon nerfed, but think another should be. It's frustrating to people who love a weapon and it gets nerfed. It's frustrating to PvE players when weapon nerfs affect PvE play. It's frustrating to PvP players when complaints about one shotgun get all special ammo nerfed. It's frustrating to everyone when after so much tinkering; weapons just are completely inconsistent and wonky at this point. So here we are getting ready to approach another round of balancing and anyone that isn't apprehensive as to what Bungie are going to do to weapon classes, probably don't really play this game. At this point the main thing that needs to not happen is anymore overall class damage nerfs. It's one thing to tune a class by adjusting stability, impact and RoF or by having damage drop off sooner or later. That can bring classes closer to where they think they should be performance wise without affecting performance at intended range. It's a whole different thing to do overall damage nerfs like they did to ARs. If numbers show that Thorn really does outperform everything by a significant margin, then the fix needs to be in making it harder to land shots or by limiting the effective range. I don't care if you are a fan of Thorn and its poison or not, it's not fair to the people who did that bounty and truly earned that weapon to take away the DoT or affect the basic performance of the weapon. If you're going to run this system of bring our own gear, then weapons should be allowed to give some advantages. I think most agree at this point that ARs should get at least some (if not all) of their damage back and I personally would like to see special ammo reexamined because I don't think it needed to be reduced and I don't think it positively affected gameplay at all. I would really like to see Bungie participate in these forum discussions instead of the "we're listening" routine, but whether or not they choose to join this discussion, I would like to hear your takes on not just whether or not you agree with anything I've written, but your take on the current system and how it should function as well as what you feel works with current weapons and what needs to change. I particularly hope that every post isn't about Thorn and that people have opinions on overall weapon performance in the game. If you do want to talk Thorn and think it needs to be changed, I'd like to hear fair and reasonable solutions to accomplish it and not just "remove the DoT". Thank you for taking part, look forward to hearing your thoughts. ---Edit--- My initial take after reading the comments so far is that the biggest issues with weapon balance are 1) Effective range of weapons have been broken since launch in large part do to map sizes. 2) Large maps do exist, but only in fringe modes. This compounds the reliance on close/mid range weapons. 3) Ranged precision and damage output should be: Snipers>Scout>Pulse Rifles>ARs>Hand Cannons>Fusion Rifles>Shotguns Close combat precision and damage output should be reversed. Currently Hand Cannons can compete with Scouts at distance, but a Scout can't compete with a Hand Cannon up close. Every weapon should have its sweet spot and play style should depend on weapon class. 4) The lack of private matches prohibits people from learning maps and where their weapons are most effective before entering competition and lack of map awareness leads to weapon frustration. ---Edit 2--- Next installment on endgame content if interested https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/138042122