Continued from [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/140766029]part 8: hand cannons that aren't Hawkmoon[/url] [b]Shotguns[/b] Ahhh, shotguns, the weapon class that requires the absolute least amount of skill to use and the single most deadly one in the game. It's also the class that has the best 3rd gen (HoW) perk rolls (more on that later). The 200% pve damage was a wonderful moment in Destiny history, not only because it made a useless weapon class into a fun, effective one, but because it was first time you ever actually addressed a pve issue. Bungie, once again you sound surprised by the possibilities the weapon perk sandbox you guys designed allows. It makes it sound like you don't really consider the possibilities you're creating at all, and just rely on us to playtest your game. If you're constantly being surprised that people will go out of the way to obtain the best rolls in the game (and yes, it takes a lot of time, motes, weapon parts, and frustration to get those perfect rolls), why don't you just start testing your rolls more? Not only would this help you preemptively identify OP rolls and adjust perks/stats accordingly, it should also help you identify and prune out the garbage perks in the game. You added a lot of perks in HoW. Unfortunately a lot of them were either subpar, or, more frustratingly, entire weapon classes were screwed by having all the good perks on one slot, and all the garbage ones on the other. There will always be better and worse perks, but totally worthless perks and rolls are just bad design. What I find strange is that you effectively made 4 new rollable Felwinter's (Party Crasher, Matador, Judgment VI, Her Courtesy) after Felwinter's Banner and were surprised by the results. I'm guessing your thinking was the special ammo drop nerf would balance things out but it doesn't. The people who use shotguns like a primary just run around grabbing all the special, leaving snipers and those few of us who still use fusions out to dry. But thankfully you're addressing the most egregious offending perks... hopefully there will be more variety in pvp. Your issues with us Schwartzennegering our way through your pve encounters isn't really a weapon design issue, it's a level design one. Truth is, Destiny really has two ways of making things difficult: throw a bunch of enemies at you and throw a giant bullet sponge at you that can practically one shot you. When those two fail, there's always the cheap instadeath mechanic to fall back on. Sure, I agree that shotguns should be a high risk/high reward weapon, but if it's a really high risk/somewhat high reward weapon, will it really be worth it? In short: be careful, you just finally managed to make shotguns not suck in pve. Goals: * Shotgun is most effective at very close range – for some reason video games seem to operate under this delusion that shotguns murder everything within six feet but can't hit anything outside of that. Makes me wonder if game designers have ever actually fired a shotgun. There's this thing called skeet shooting... but whatever, game design-wise, it works and helps differentiate shotguns from fusions * Complements melee attacks and other close-quarters class builds – I'm guessing this is what you were going for with close and/or personal. While this makes sense, you have to deal with the reality that the only time anyone with a shotgun's going to melee anything is if they have to reload. * Offensively closing on an enemy with a Shotgun is a risk/reward timing game – nailing this is the key to making shotguns a fun, effective yet not game breaking weapon class. While you can certainly mow down even yellow bar mobs, any large boss will probably just end up stomping you unless you really nail the timing. * Curb Shotgun effectiveness in PVE slightly to reintroduce some risk when closing on a powerful enemy – finally Bungie! You're making shotguns an actual challenge to use in pvp instead of instadeath noob tubes! Wait a second, you said pve. Damn. Well, sure just be careful you don't overdo it. Changes: * Shotgun perks that enhance lethality at range should be less effective when combined with a high initial range stat. Reduce Shot Package Accuracy buff by 30%. Rangefinder adds a 5% base Range increase on ADS (was 20%) – maybe this will fix the crucible issues, maybe it won't. Rangefinder is just a poor man's shot package, and without giving a current accuracy buff stat for shot package it's hard to say how much of an impact this will have. Personally, my issue with shotguns isn't really the absurd builds so much as it is the fusion rifle nerfs making shotguns the uncontested short range special. Maybe these nerfs will work, but you can still use third row modifiers alone to get some absurd range. * Reduce Precision Damage multiplier on Shotguns by 10% – pretty inconsequential in pvp, we'll have to see how it affects pve. * Reduce damage against AI combatants by 10% – same as above. Hard to gauge the real impact until the nerf goes through. On the whole, the shotgun nerfs are a welcome change. When almost nobody uses an entire weapon class, it's a problem. Nerfing shotguns, however, isn't enough to bring back fusions as a viable choice. While you can outshoot a shotty charger with a fusion (try Plan C, Exile's Curse, or a well balanced hot swap + accelerated coils + hip fire. It's hilarious.), it requires a good deal of practice and a bit of luck. The nerfs might introduce more variety into pvp, but there's no substitute for a fusion buff in pve. Continued in [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/140793425]Part 10: Exotic Shottys[/url]