Oh this aint good. Not only will the exotics feel pain, but so will our old weapons, THE WEAPONS THAT WE USE THE MOST!!! My secret handshake that i have has hammer forge as its only range perk, and it does have decent range with it. Take that away, and my weapon will be a lot less special then what it is now. Perhaps a little if its range is the worst of all legendaries, but you get the point. No one out there can say that this is good!

There is no road map or rhyme or reason as to what decisions they make to this game. They are like a kid with an ant farm.

extremely concerned with, infact I made a thread that day https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139713998/0/0/1 They are effectively directly attacking endgame weapons and Exotics... and based on PoE gear, the advantages of those perks where in mind ( otherwise they would have used new perks instead of old when making would they not? ) I was pretty sure I noticed all blue weapons performed little worse from start compared to green, and same went for purple compared to blue, those weapons, I am relatively sure, originally, came with worse base stats compared to common guns because of all the available perks.... The only guns I know to be able to be labelled like this directly would be the 2 exotic HMG... I used to remember with my pre level 20 gear, much better stability... when you get to the exotic level, the stability is horrendous, ( as an example ) So my thought was that all weapons, the higher grade, had worse base stats to compensate for unlockable perks and tat boosts...

Yes - this is what worries me the most, too. They threw a lot at us with that 2.0 weapon update description and they also said that new perks will require tradeoffs, like (slightly) better range for a smaller magazine size. If you read between the lines, it's almost like they threw all the Black Hammer, Ice Breaker and Gjallahorn nerfs at us and just hoped that this other news would get overshadowed. Don't nerf these great perks! And, don't force me into trade-off decisions. Everything just gets murky and muddled and that is not FUN.

It better not screw over my Shadow Price, because that gun is still good unascended and they better not be messin with it!

What incentive will there be to run the Vault of Glass, Crota's End, Trials of Osiris, or Prison of Elders in year two - or do any exotic weapon bounties? After learning about the totality of the coming downgrades, what incentive is there to run them right now? Till now, we've been grinding hard mode raids and PoE to get or help others get the guns and armor. Silly rabbit.... what were we thinking? I still have my cool Recon helmet for my Halo 3 Spartan I still have the bad-ass Sgt. Johnson for my ODST Firefight character. My Halo Reach Spartan still has his blue flame head, and he's still grinding on the last progress bar to Inheritor. I am so glad no one tried to make them worth less in year two.

Yep. People were so outraged/pleased about gun-specific nerfs (ghorn / thorn etc) that most missed this part... ... The one where they basically reveal that the true effect will be -blam!-ing up all guns, including / especially for PVE, and that the most logical reason for that is to make sure that once players have cleared the 2-3 hours of content that will be released with TTK, they keep on grinding for 200-300 hours to obtain and upgrade news guns that won't suck / will allow easier completion of TTK hard mode... Destiny was my first semi/quasi MMO experience and will probably be my last / won't see as much of me in year 2. Sorry, but I don't like being treated like a monkey that throws money at a screen. Let alone a lab rat that will throw hours at a grinding wheel to make their player stats look good. Bungie: number of hours played is a great stat to flaunt. But when your base does so out of necessity (like a chore), or does so while frustrated by nerfs, absence of matchmaking etc, you'll probably find that sooner or later those stats will rapidly plummet. It's a game and we want to play it to have fun. Not to make you happy and conform to the way you "feel" it should be played (ie grind, grind, grind and then grind some more to make your stats and server capitalization look good)

Well people now you get to see super amazing perks like shank burn and dreg burn. Suck good perks now when I one shot a shank with my scout riffle I can comfortably know I overkilled. Good job bungie. Your new perks are really evolving this game like people say they are.

There goes my super long range auto rifle that has: Persistence Hammer Forged Rangefinder It's not even like it was a roll. I bought it from the vanguard quartermaster before HoW, so anybody that had the game then could get it.

I think people are missing what Bungie is intending to do. I think they have realized that their previous formula was wrong, which is not much of a surprise. I could be wrong however. Me personally want to feel like I am getting stronger as I play. Bungie has failed to do this thus far because of the formulas and methods they have been using. Realistically, in my opinion at least, weapons, amour, and abilities all should get stronger as you progress through the game. But they failed in this department because of the base stats of gear, especially Legendary and Exotic gear as well as the upgrade methods. We aren't even a year into this 10 year Destiny plan and have not yet reached level 50...But look at our Guardians. We can and have been easily able to max out 2/3 of our stats such as Intellect and Discipline while still having about 50 pts in the other stat which would be Strength in this situation. Not to mention some of the amour pieces have incredibly powerful perks. There also isn't a skill tree for our abilities. What I mean by this is that you don't upgrade your class abilities any further. There should be upgrades to Vortex Grenades, Nova Bombs, etc. This would be huge for Destiny to incorporate a skill leveling system like this as it would make guardians more unique and have certain play styles. This is also including factors such as the Amour, Agility, and Regen stats that could also use some adjusting. Now lastly and most importantly are the weapons. Like I said earlier we aren't even a year in yet into this 10 year plan and our weapons seem like they should only be available later on in this game life. Weapons like GHorn, Ice Breaker, Thunderlord, etc are way overpowered at this point. Their base stats along with their perks are way too strong at this point. How are we suppose to progress weapon wise when we already have the best weapons the game could possibly ever offer. Right now I can't envision a Rocket better than GHorn or a Sniper better than Ice Breaker. This also goes along with the Raid and other Legendary weapons. Bungie has made them so powerful that older players no longer have a need to use future weapons. Bungie should have honestly planned this a lot better. All in all Bungie I think may possibly be starting to realize this. It should honestly be like this. Vanilla<TDB<HoW<TTK. As of now Vanilla weapons have been the best perk wise and stat wise imo.

It just means that those that were lucky enough to hold on to their original legendaries with good stat rolls and perks will find that this patch makes them as gay as the new guns are now. I have a PhD in Bungie-douchebag double speak.

I've brought this up in a few posts arguing about the Hand Cannon nerfs. I think this is their way of making the vanilla gear bad enough that people will abandon it without making the new weapons any better than what we've seen in HoW. They can't put Y1 vets and Y2 newbies on level terms while so many top-tier weapons are found in older content like VoG.