{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
7/20/2015 3:51:18 PM
16
Funny how perspective works. You can have a clan that only accepts females and it's fine and dandy. You can have all black colleges and it's okay too. But if you even thought about having a men only clan or a whites only college you'd be sexist and racist.
English
-
And let's be honest, you CAN have a clan with those restrictions, you'd just have to constantly defend your recruitment from opinionated trolls day in and day out...
-
Edited by urbanphilosophy: 7/20/2015 5:42:26 PMLet's be honest. I cannot have a clan with those restrictions because it go against everything I believe in and I can honestly say if I ever seen an advertisement or a clan using that as a selling point I would be expressing my very loud opinion there instead.
-
Thank you for your thoughts?
-
As I've said on this thread before, I don't think anyone here has a problem with all-male clans like Dads of Destiny - we're both here to serve a positive mission (we provide a safe space for female gamers, and they help gaming fathers connect with other gaming fathers). We routinely refer male friends to them because they are an awesome group. So, while we're checking assumptions, take a second look at many comments on our thread, and tell me honestly that there's no reason a woman wouldn't want to know she has a safe space to connect with other gamers who aren't going to harass her just for being female. You're right, though, it is funny how perspective works. It's particularly interesting when you can put your own ego aside and instead be empathetic enough to try to see from someone else's perspective.
-
We have several females that play right along side my clan and we haven't needed to 'protect' them or shelter them from players. These are grown women that can fight their own battles and judge what is appropriate or not for themselves. The mindset of ' oh she's a girl we need to keep her safe and make sure nobody offense her' is sexist at its very core. I don't feel there is a need for gender specific groups among gamers. There may be preference for it but no need. If you had advertised your clan as seeking women who share similar interests and used that alone I would've not said anything but I find it nearly repulsive that the selling point for your clan is 'safe for women' and a place to not be harassed by men. Not only does that put men in bad light but it also puts women the women that join in a bad light too. You make it appear as if women are weak and need a group to hide behind so they don't get hurt. Shame on you.
-
"I don't feel the need" ok well that says it right there. I appreciate all the time it took to tell us your feelings and thoughts on sexism and gender divide, but it is your own personal beliefs and experiences. For ladies who do experience and are affected by sexism in gaming, we will continue to offer them a friendly and encouraging group to associate with.
-
Edited by urbanphilosophy: 7/20/2015 5:35:13 PMIf you're going to quote me at least get it right lol. I said I don't feel there is a need for gender specific clans. The reason is simple. Harassment comes in all forms. Male on male , female on female etcetera. Bad apples will always exist regardless of gender. If the bad apple is causing problems regardless of gender they should be removed to prevent future incident. You didn't advertise it to be a safe places away from all types of sexual harassment , you singled out the male on female stereotype. That is what is repulsive. Discrimination based upon stereotypes and gender. That is literally the definition of sexism.
-
That's great for you and your friends, and I do mean that genuinely. I also play alongside quite a few great male gamers who I consider to be good friends, while being a grown woman who's more than happy to fight her own battles. I don't consider myself or any member of this group weak, or in need of a group to hide behind. Feeling that way doesn't undermine the value of a safe space, as I'm capable of thinking beyond myself and looking at the greater reality in which I actually exist, not the one I wish existed. I also think you misunderstand the difference between a safe space where someone doesn't have to worry about male to female sexual harassment, which we are doing our best to do, and protecting people from being offended, which no one can do. Perhaps this is a willful misunderstanding, as you've made it clear you're repulsed by the very notion of us, but either way, we're pretty happy with the community we've created. It's vibrant, supportive, and a hell of a lot of fun. If you are so concerned about ending sexism in all its forms, perhaps you should check out this organization instead of spending your time attempting to shame us (https://www.facebook.com/NomasOrg). As you might be able to tell from our founder's name, we're pretty Shameless.
-
My problem wasn't with the group or any individual. It was with the fact that I seen a negative stereotype of men being used as a sale point for joining the clan. It offends me. Just as if I advertised for a competitive clan allowing only male members assuring them there wouldn't be crying after losses should offend women.
-
I would be more willing to buy your argument about being upset over us using a stereotype of men harassing women in gaming if that kind of harassment was like Bigfoot - lots of assertions, no proven experiences. However, as both I and pretty much every member of our clan that I've interacted with can personally verify, male to female harassment in gaming does happen with startling frequency. So, by noting that we are providing a space free from that, we aren't playing on an unproven assertion, we're speaking to the experiences of women who live it every day. Again, that doesn't mean they can't fight their own battles or decide what is/isn't appropriate for them, it just means we find value in providing a space we do our best to ensure doesn't include that experience. I honestly wouldn't give the slightest of cares if you advertised the clan you described, if nothing else, it would serve as a clear notice not to interact with any of that clan's members and would make my life a little easier. As to your point about removing anyone who causes problems, that would clearly be covered by rule number two - you must be respectful to everyone in the clan. We understand bad apples come in all shapes, sizes, and any other way you want to categorize people, hence the rule. Finally, to your point about the literal definition of sexism. You have your definition; I have mine. It's pretty well explained here: https://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/sexism-definition/. If you want to continue to have a problem with us, just so you can have a problem with someone and a place to share your opinions, feel free. If nothing else, every post from you puts our recruitment thread right back to the top of the forums and helps us advertize, so I have to be grateful for that. Otherwise, I think I've said all I have to say. Good luck out there, guardian!
-
We didn't say "all men are pigs"... Unless I missed that somewhere?
-
I didn't say you did. Did I miss that somewhere?
-
There are no black only colleges....
-
That has only changed in the past decade or two. Look at history
-
Doesn't matter as there are no black only colleges today as whites could have been admitted many years ago, its just like now many were uncomfortable entering due to their racial insecurities and lies. Speaking of history, you may want to research why Black College/Universities were created in the 1st place. Before you say violence doesn't happen today to Blacks on majority Caucasian colleges, you may want to look up news reports of many incidents still happening.
-
Doesn't matter as there are no black only colleges today as whites could have been admitted many years ago, its just like now many were uncomfortable entering due to their racial insecurities and lies. Speaking of history, you may want to research why Black College/Universities were created in the 1st place. Before you say violence doesn't happen today to Blacks on majority Caucasian colleges, you may want to look up news reports of many incidents still happening.
