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Edited by Hawpy:
7/13/2015 10:59:37 PM
329
Why are Scout Rifles so rarely seen in Crucible?
Scout Rifles are currently the second-least used weapon type, ahead of only Sidearms that have been in that game for ~7 weeks, as opposed to just over 10 months. What I want to know is: why? They answer several problems and complaints that people seem to have at the moment
Snipers OP - Scout Rifles are the only weapons that can actually compete with Snipers at long range reliably, so why are they not used?
Thorn needs a range nerf - see above
Auto Rifle buff - Some of the high RoF Scout Rifles can be rolled with Full Auto to provide a weapon that fires faster than a Focus Fire Auto Rifle of the SUROS Impact/RoF denomination, while also dealing more damage and having more range, so why not use them? Good examples are the Deadshot Luna and the NL Shadow. Makeshift AR right there.
Thorn/TLW are broken with 2-shots - High impact Scout Rifles can score 3-hit kills that no one can complain about, hell, The Scholar can 2-shot. If you're looking for a counter, try MIDA Multi-Tool, the hidden talent of High-Calibre rounds and the speedy movements it allows for turn you into a someone that screams "You can't beat what you can't hit"
If you were to ask me (here we go, yet another opinion), I think the reason behind their disuse is the abuse of Shotguns. I shan't lie, there is no worse weapon to be caught using than a Scout Rifle if a Shotgun comes round the corner, ready to blow your head off. I'd be very interested to know anyone else's reasons and thoughts on the matter.
Perhaps, if nothing is going to be nerfed, a slight Scout Rifle buff is in order? The last one was in October and has shown no signs of increased usage
Edit 1: It's great to have found a plethora of Scout Rifle users like myself, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and debating the points raised here. For now, I'm going to sleep, so will be unable to reply to any of you for the next few hours (rest assured, I shall do my best to get back to you ASAP). Thank you all very much for keeping this post as active as it has been!
Edit 2: The answer I have been given many times now is "Why use them when Hand Cannons are available?". This is exactly the problem the Crucible faces at the moment. A Scout Rifle requires precision and nerve, but Exotic Hand Cannons can be put to stellar use by just about anyone, so there is no incentive to not use them - the bad players use them in hopes of raising their K/D by using something overpowered, and the good players use them so they don't fall behind to everyone else using the same weapons. Someone I used to be friends with, and now despise, has a K/D of 3.97 and 41942 kills with The Last Word, almost double the kills I have in Crucible full stop. From what I understand, he's ranked the 11th best player in the world (according to DestinyTracker). Combine those kind of stats with the sheer numbers of people using TLW/Thorn, it amazes me that this has gone on for so long.
Edit 3: Seriously, massive thanks to everyone who has kept this in the "Trending" section for the last 15-16 hours, stoking the fire of debate with each new point raised. I owe you all one :D
Edit 4: Out of curiosity, I'm wondering who has seen Datto's video that complains about the current state of Crucible ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHenCd2BWNQ for those of you who are interested and yet to see it). It sums up pretty much every non-Scout Rifle related thing I could say, and unlike myself, he's a big enough personality in the community to cause a change
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Hand cannons and map sizes. I mean, I love my Gheleon's Demise, and I can bust heads with it, but in most maps, ranges are short enough that there's no advantage to the scout rifle and hand cannons hit harder than most of them. If you can't land the first shot, you'll be dead before your third.
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I use my scholar adept and MIDA many times.
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Never use thorn anymore, neither TLW, because of so much hate I can take down these over used guns with the Multi tool, Fang, or even the VoC. Scout Rifles can be far more powerful than these guns that take a huge crutch for the other players, you only have to use them right aim for the head and you will dominate these players with their crutch weapon.
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Hand cannons currently have the range of scout rifles with twice the impact.
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Edited by CreamPuffDuf: 7/13/2015 5:46:20 PMI use scout rifles all the time in PVE. In PVP I use the Mida quite often, especially in ToO. However, it also depends on the map. If it's something like The Cauldron, I slap the Red Death or TLW on. I refuse to use the Thorn unless I'm desperate for a win (like 8-0 ToO and we are down in rounds haha)
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2 RepliesI find that there are a handful of maps were scouts are good. Also the nature of PvP is very fast so trying to use them when people are gunning down in you is quite hard. Lastly HC kill just as fast but are great at medium and close range. I would say scouts might be best in trials because people are more cautious generally.
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I still use suros in PvP, though have been toying with the idea of using on of my full auto scouts. I'd actually prefer to be caught with a SR against a shotgun than my Suros due to the higher impact. By the way Hawkmoon can also be a 2 shot and very rarely a 1 shot (don't think they changed it) It requires landing all head shots though.
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Yeah I always run either my mida or my scholar in crucible. The mida is amazing for striker titans with shoulder charge becuase you can get to people a Hell of lot faster and it makes the shoulder charge animation quicker
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Scouts don't need a buff. They need open maps that can allow them to be used how they were intended. Legendary hand cannons would get shredded in a long sight line to scouts. Only the thorn would be able to stand strong
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4 RepliesBecause thorn has scout range and all too often the crucible is swarmed in thornadoes.
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I'm really liking the scholar
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3 RepliesNow the real debate is full auto worth it on scouts [spoiler]personally I hate it since that job should be for auto rifles.[/spoiler]
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2 RepliesAre they op? No? Well there's your answer.
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People dont like 4 shot kill guns only 1-2and maybe 3 shot kill
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1 ReplyBecause reforged and exotic hand cannons and pulse rifles can have crazy range and are more suitable on these close quarter maps. The only suitable map is shores of time but even there you can make sure that every gun fight is close quarter
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3 RepliesMain reason isn't people can't aim. You have to be able to get precision hits with scout rifles and a lot of people simply can't lol
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MIDA or Gheleons Demise for me
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MIDA for mid to long. Out snipe snipers, out shoot hand cannons with the staggering rounds and juking. Max your armor and recovery and utilize the +2 agility to make up for the loss of speed. Shotty for up close.
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1 ReplyI still use my Another NitC when I feel like it, but I rarely use MIDA.
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1 ReplyIf I am playing regular crucible I use the shadow or the hygeia sp? Usually after a few kills I see people putting away the thorns. I will put the hygia on my hunter and the shadow on my warlock both do work.
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I rerolled my ghaleons demise for full auto hidden hand and hand laid stock. Went flawless on three characters with it this week. I'll equip it now.
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1 ReplyThe main reason is that most maps are designed with medium-close range combat in mind. Scouts are strictly medium-long range guns. So you get outgunned a lot in the majority of maps.
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Edited by suggestedpigeon: 7/13/2015 5:07:24 PMI played with scouts a lot in the alpha/beta and in early crucible on launch but: 1: The three maps they do the best on are in combined arms only. Most other maps are tiny cooridor shooters where any close range weapon performs well. 2: In most cases exotic handcannons can do what a scout rifle does with a faster time to kill. Mida is a bit of an acquired taste and honestly if you're the kind of person that's a badass with mida you would simply do better with an exotic handcannon. 3:Leads from my second point. The crucible right now is a 1-2 hit kill meta. The Scholar only 2 hits if you kill someone, reload, then hit another person which is significantly harder to accomplish over Thorn's quick two tap and run, TLW's bugged 2 hit ads kill, Hawkmoon's luck, red death, messenger, hopscotch, or even just running around blink shotgunning. Scout rifles just don't have a place in this meta. 4. Currently some of the best scout rifle builds I've seen involve full auto and explosive rounds which simply further shows how sad auto rifles are right now that the best auto rifles are scout rifles. Then with map design you run into a problem: you have to have long sightlines for them to perform at their best but that means more opportunity for more sniper camping which is pretty annoying. Basically crucible is a mess and every possible solution opens 100 more problems.
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I stand beside my NL Shadow with Full Auto and HI rounds and 3rd eye. It is the only gun I play with in crucible and when they get close my FL with Hammer Forged takes care of the rest.
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i hav 54,000 kills with just scout rifles
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I use Mida quite a bit and also use One/One Synthesis that has Full auto, heavy rounds and firefly.
