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Edited by Hawpy:
7/13/2015 10:59:37 PM
329
Why are Scout Rifles so rarely seen in Crucible?
Scout Rifles are currently the second-least used weapon type, ahead of only Sidearms that have been in that game for ~7 weeks, as opposed to just over 10 months. What I want to know is: why? They answer several problems and complaints that people seem to have at the moment
Snipers OP - Scout Rifles are the only weapons that can actually compete with Snipers at long range reliably, so why are they not used?
Thorn needs a range nerf - see above
Auto Rifle buff - Some of the high RoF Scout Rifles can be rolled with Full Auto to provide a weapon that fires faster than a Focus Fire Auto Rifle of the SUROS Impact/RoF denomination, while also dealing more damage and having more range, so why not use them? Good examples are the Deadshot Luna and the NL Shadow. Makeshift AR right there.
Thorn/TLW are broken with 2-shots - High impact Scout Rifles can score 3-hit kills that no one can complain about, hell, The Scholar can 2-shot. If you're looking for a counter, try MIDA Multi-Tool, the hidden talent of High-Calibre rounds and the speedy movements it allows for turn you into a someone that screams "You can't beat what you can't hit"
If you were to ask me (here we go, yet another opinion), I think the reason behind their disuse is the abuse of Shotguns. I shan't lie, there is no worse weapon to be caught using than a Scout Rifle if a Shotgun comes round the corner, ready to blow your head off. I'd be very interested to know anyone else's reasons and thoughts on the matter.
Perhaps, if nothing is going to be nerfed, a slight Scout Rifle buff is in order? The last one was in October and has shown no signs of increased usage
Edit 1: It's great to have found a plethora of Scout Rifle users like myself, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and debating the points raised here. For now, I'm going to sleep, so will be unable to reply to any of you for the next few hours (rest assured, I shall do my best to get back to you ASAP). Thank you all very much for keeping this post as active as it has been!
Edit 2: The answer I have been given many times now is "Why use them when Hand Cannons are available?". This is exactly the problem the Crucible faces at the moment. A Scout Rifle requires precision and nerve, but Exotic Hand Cannons can be put to stellar use by just about anyone, so there is no incentive to not use them - the bad players use them in hopes of raising their K/D by using something overpowered, and the good players use them so they don't fall behind to everyone else using the same weapons. Someone I used to be friends with, and now despise, has a K/D of 3.97 and 41942 kills with The Last Word, almost double the kills I have in Crucible full stop. From what I understand, he's ranked the 11th best player in the world (according to DestinyTracker). Combine those kind of stats with the sheer numbers of people using TLW/Thorn, it amazes me that this has gone on for so long.
Edit 3: Seriously, massive thanks to everyone who has kept this in the "Trending" section for the last 15-16 hours, stoking the fire of debate with each new point raised. I owe you all one :D
Edit 4: Out of curiosity, I'm wondering who has seen Datto's video that complains about the current state of Crucible ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHenCd2BWNQ for those of you who are interested and yet to see it). It sums up pretty much every non-Scout Rifle related thing I could say, and unlike myself, he's a big enough personality in the community to cause a change
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Because the maps are too small and scouts are balanced.
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Pretty much only play with a scout in PvP. Fires too slow for PvE.
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3 RepliesBecause Scouts are balanced.
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All the big maps that actually let scout rifles shine are in the Combined Arms playlist. You know, the once a month thing.
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Still prefer voc to mida, although I'm coming around to it. If only you could change the sight to say a red dot. I aggree the ttk should be better on scouts, anything that is a 3 shot kill aka gheleons demise is too damn slow firing imo.
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Edited by DidacticRhetoric: 7/13/2015 9:57:44 PMmaps are too small for scouts and the range on hand cannons make no sense. I wish I saved the video, but I got killed by TLW when I was trying a snipe him. It was Twilight Gap, and I was standing behind the metal crates, closer to A. The other guy was on point C.
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Because currently exotic hand cannons outclass everything that isn't an exotic hand cannon
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2 RepliesThey work as intended. This means that buy the time you get the kill shot off some asshole with thorn has already 2 shotted you from sniper range.
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because by the time you shoot your 7th bullet to kill someone you would be dead
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1 ReplyI love my Badger CCL, thing hits like a train
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Keep it simple.... It's because if the maps. Most are too small for ideal scout rifle engagement
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Edited by Ashen: 7/13/2015 8:33:26 PMIn crucible I pretty much exclusively use my mida multi tool and vestian dynasty (more than my thorn TLW and red death combined) and have been managing much higher k/d ratios than I used to. Scout rifles for the win!
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Some maps are to small. Some players don't change they're weapon & play style according to map. Budgie leaves it up to you guardian. Play YOUR game Become Legend ;)
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Maps are CQC and pulse rifles are problematic. If you take Thorn/TLW out, pulse rifles are the biggest problem for scouts. They aren't balanced -- Hopscotch can easily 2-shot -- and they're more offensively-oriented than their scout counterparts. Red Death hits harder than MIDA and regens health and Bad Juju is basically an autorifle. Personally, I love my Scholar, but it's not competitive. Plus, if you're at the range where a scout is good, you'll get shredded by a sniper.
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I like the crucible now thanks to Iron Banner and never go anywhere with Mida. Just shoot and scoot. Only the best Thorn users can hit a sideways moving target and Mida is basically like shooting homing bullets. I get badly outclassed at close range, but that is why the good lords at Bungie made shot package scrubguns!
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Edited by neutronium: 7/13/2015 6:58:48 PMSo I'm not big into crucible, (and bad at it,) but decided to grind the last IB to at least rank 3 on all chars. Take a look at the Scout on my Titan (Zero Point: Full Auto, Explosive, Army of One) it did very, very well in crucible. Best game was over 3 K/D
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Because the average gamer sucks at aiming accurately and cannot land the needed shots to kill other players with them quickly. So they use which ever other weapon is easier to use and then cry if someone beats them with that same said weapon saying it is OP.
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I like VOC and Multitool the best, but I can't counter hand cannons if we're up close. Plus I don't play alot of crucible.....so lets be honest I suck and need practice to use them correctly.
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Because of this: Map is Pantheon, character "a" is at A spawn. Character "b" is at C spawn. They both go to the long corridor back by the waterfall and stay at their respective ends of the corridor. (We will just say they have their backs to the wall on each end for clarification.) "A" is using Thorn and is able to two shot "B" from this distance, dealing very near full damage. "B" is using Vision of Confluence and is hitting for around 65 damage per critical, albeit at a slower fire rate. Unless you get the drop on a Thorn user, you will very likely just trade kills with them or die outright because he launches 2-3 shots at you and then runs to cover. Aside from the poison, The Last Word and Hawkmoon and basically any other hand cannon deal more damage at the same range, therefore making scout rifles [i]obselete[/i] if you want to get technical.
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I like VOC and Multitool the best, but I can't counter hand cannons if we're up close. Plus I don't play alot of crucible.....so lets be honest I suck and need practice to use them correctly.
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I feel like the answer to your question relates to map size, most maps don't cater to the range of scrifles, now I'm not saying that they can't be used effectively, which they can, but it is easy to see most medium-short range weapons work generally the best in most situations. Yet, when you get into combined arms it is open enough to justify the medium-long range weapons, while still containing some close quarter ish areas for those preferring their arifles, prifles and such.
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1 ReplyBecause they need a buff
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1 ReplyI love the scholar, and over time I have learned that people avoid scouts because unlike other primaries, they are very niche. Most primaries work at all ranges but scouts really struggle up close. This is why I use nothing manacles and exiles curse with mine. Each weapon has a very fast ttk if you throw a good nade or if you ready your fusion rifle at a good time. Fusion rifles are also very underaged btw- they still counter shotgun rushers and beat everything except last word at close range. Basically, people are too lazy to find ways to compensate a weapons weakness when they could just use weapons without any (looking at you thorn).
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I think map size, and iron banner always being control, have more to do with it than any personal preference. The gameplay forces short range engagements. I'm pretty much exclusively a scout rifle guy in PvE. I prefer to snipe over run with a shotgun, but there is no point to that on control or maps like Anomaly or Cauldron, which are frequent in the playlist rotation.
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I've been using the scholar so much lately and found that scouts (Except MIDA) are generally used for the supportive role. Sitting back picking ppl off and helping teammates put damage on ppl without being in the fray.
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Hand cannons and map sizes. I mean, I love my Gheleon's Demise, and I can bust heads with it, but in most maps, ranges are short enough that there's no advantage to the scout rifle and hand cannons hit harder than most of them. If you can't land the first shot, you'll be dead before your third.
