We all know it, (Bungie knows it but refuses to share the statistics): the hunter class is the easiest to pvp with.
Why is it that you see far more hunters that have made it to the lighthouse? You have a class with two supers, that can easily one shot kill opposing team members, all over the map.
With nova bomb or fist of havoc, only grouped enemies are vulnerable. With blade dancer or golden gun, you can wipe out a whole Osiris team, even if they're spread out.
This is not balance.
This is not "good" pvp which rewards skill.
This is a crutch and "i win" button.
The statistics don't lie.
Why won't Bungie address this? Bungie was so quick to nerf the vex and auto rifles, and provided plenty of statistics to support the argument.
If you've made it to the lighthouse as a hunter, I'm happy for you but let's not kid ourselves: some classes require more skill and are at a distinct disadvantage.
Edit: Let's look at each class based on their visual design. This tells you how the class "should" preform.
HUNTERS - Lean, athletic, wearing less armor. They are the snipers, the glass cannons, the... hunters. Their strength less in hitting hardest and not getting hit in return. Why wear armor when you can avoid the hit in the first place? The ranged class in MMOs.
WARLOCKS - These are the wizards, smart, wise, crazy strong space magic, but not meant for physical combat. Robes, not armor. Also thinner, not bulky with armor and physique. Wizard buff/debuff class from MMOs.
TITANS - Wear lots of heavy armor, bulky, muscular physique, slow. Made to withstand a hit, support the team, hold the line, protect the snipers and healers from melee. Tank class from MMOs.
So why is it that Titans, supposedly the strongest, have the weakest melee attack? Why do Titans die just about as quickly as the other classes?
Titans are slower, easier targets, so we should have more health/armor.
Titans are physically stronger than those who study magic all day, or hunt in the wilds, flitting from tree to tree like ninjas. Therefore you'd expect the melee attack to be strongest, which isn't even ranged.
Yes, Warlocks have the strongest melee attack because space magic, fine, but it is also at a range advantage.
I just have a hard time believing a throwing knife is able to find a chink in the armor, while both people are running, at 30 meters.
It is obvious the Titan performance doesn't match the visual design or concept of the class.
Thoughts?
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Lol it's so much easier to go on a Sunsinger. Self-res with Touch of Flame and Viking Funeral and Light Beyond Nemesis is my easiest trip each weekend. Just stop
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Everyone in the game has the opportunity to play as a Hunter. Looks balanced to me ;)
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Golden Guns kill Bladedancers, which in turn are killed by Fist of Havoc and Nova Bomb. Sunsingers can wait for Bladedancers and Golden Gunners to run out and Ward of Dawn can protect from both hunter abilities. Meanwhile, any super can cancel the effectiveness of the same super. All classes have one super than can "pop" Wards as well, at the expense of much of their killing strength.
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Because as a percentage there are significantly more Hunter players than Warlock or Titan. Also, the Sunsinger has a duration based super but you didn't seem to be addressing that, did ya? Let's not kid ourselves, you just seem salty that you can't reach the Lighthouse because you are unable to properly use your super and class abilities to your advantage. Let's break it down one by one: The whole idea of a duration-based super is simply like machine guns vs. rockets. We know how that works, right? Usually, if you can do well with them and survive the onslaught of rockets, you can go on a nice spree with a machine gun and your kills will be fairly spread out. However, you put yourself at a risk due to the machine gun simply offering more risk than a rocket launcher. Rockets on the other hand are limited, but devastating. With decent timing and placement, they can wipe teams, but more importantly they deny the other team their heavy and they save you from death. This is the main point; while they may get you less kills, they also get you less deaths. I think you should keep in mind that Hunters have the lowest amount of health, even with max armor. Not a huge margin but it does affect gameplay with certain weapons. In Golden Gun you have no damage resistance whatsoever, meaning that you can be sniped or taken out by a shotgun or even a primary if you happen to miss your target. The thing about Golden Gun is that you either kill or be killed. If you miss your target and there's more than one person aiming at you, you will die 100%. There's a risk associated with it and you are not protected from potential attackers. It embodies what a Hunter should be, even in your opinion. Lethal but squishy and vulnerable. I would say it's fair enough. Three shots is actually a little bit considering that there are gamemodes with 6 enemy players, meaning unless you get lucky with Combustion or Keyhole, you're not getting more than 3 (or 4 with Symbiote) kills if you maximize your super. In Arc Blade you have damage resistance but you are also restricted to melee range. It's a more than fair trade off since every other duration-based super (even including the upcoming Hammer of Sol) is ranged. I would like to have recorded beforehand all the times I was able to successfully kill a Bladedancer in their super, which was a lot. The key is shoot them a couple times with a primary, switch to a shotgun, give them a good blast or two in the head, and they're dead. Again, lethal but vulnerable (yes, even with damage resistance because of the massive range restriction). Perfectly follows your vision of how a Hunter should be. Then there's the thing about it being a super on a timer, rather than a one-off. I already explained this above, but to elaborate again: those one off supers have high kill potentials with low risk, but more importantly the ability to turn a situation of certain death to one or more kills. Good luck doing that with a Hunter super because you will be gunned down and smashed to a pulp. In fact, there is a video of a Titan player on youtube who got an Unbroken medal, mainly thanks to his Fist of Havoc. You know how? He was taking burn damage, so [b]he wasted his super purposefully to save himself from certain death, and it worked[/b]. If he was playing a Hunter, he would have no Unbroken medal at all. Given how much deaths count in the Trials of Osiris and how little affordance for risk there is, having supers that actually save you from death like that while having a great kill potential is vital. I have seen games of Trials frequently turned around by a Fist of Havoc that wasn't really extraordinary or very precise. He was simply the last man standing after getting revived, he had his super, the other 3 were near him to gun his down. Boom, Fist of Havoc, they all die and lose the round. If he were a Hunter, he would not be able to do this. As a Hunter you have to be predictive and so not only do you risk death if confronted with too many enemies, you risk wasting your super if someone with a shotgun or sniper just clears out the two guys you were going for before you could get to them. It's also worth mentioning that 95% of the rounds, your guns and your effectiveness with them will win you matches, more than your super will. If you aren't reaching the Lighthouse you are probably either in a bad team or you are not capable of effectively using your guns, because that's what this game is: a shooter. My friend has a Warlock and a Hunter, and his Trials of Osiris KD on the warlock is 1.67, but only 1.30 on the Hunter. If you are using ineffective counter-strategies or simply not playing well then don't expect the game to adjust everything to cater to your needs. I'm not saying you're bad, but this is the impression you are giving me right now. You don't have statistics at all and your whole post is based on an assumption. If the statistics do end up backing what you say, keep in mind what I said at the very top of my post: as a percentage there are significantly more Hunter players than Warlock or Titan. Also, it's worth mentioning that Titans are the fastest class in the game if you can use their jump properly. There's a technique called "skating" which uses the Increased Control or Catapult jumps to move quicker than anyone else can. Search up "destiny titan skating" on google and enjoy :)
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"Bullet to head and map movements wins any Osiris, Iron Banner, or crucible-based match more then supers ever will."- PhNx Hellfire
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Because they have better mobility and weapon handling skills. Weapons ready immediately kill ya every time.
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Hmmm, how many times have I seen similar things like this. So sad to think that people still can't use strategy to overcome things that multiple strategies beat every time. I can't count the number of times I've pulled out my arc blades or my flaming gun of death and been sniped or shotguned down before I can even kill the first person. It's all about knowing where the possible super's are and being ready to counter them in some way. There are two subclasses I generally have a bunch of trouble out of as a hunter, strikers and sunsinger's. They both can easily take me down if I don't watch especially for them.
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I agree titan bubbles are useless against golden gun, 2 shots and the bubble dies I had a hunter and it was op but titans are better my opinion
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Edited by Kone19ps: 7/2/2015 9:13:00 PMI've seen many more warlocks now. Titans seem to be mostly the odd class out
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More people use hunters I get all 3 there every week. Warlock is the easiest. Titan will be crazy when we get solar hammer
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I agree heavily with the bottom half of your post, as we both see the classes for the way they are meant to be, and I also heavily agree with the fact that Titans do not stand up to the role they are meant to play. I do not agree with Hunters being OP though (unbalanced, as you put it). The Crucible is only one half of the game. Patrols, strikes, raids, PoE, and other things are the other half. So, when comparing the classes together, do not only focus on PvP strengths, but focus on all their strengths. Hunters are meant to be the lethal, "hunting" type warriors of light, and with that in mind, do you not think that they could handle fighting other guardians with steady, planned shots? Hunters are very good in PvP, but hold little strengths in PvE. If it wasn't for Celestial Nighthawk, Gunslingers would be nigh useless in PvE. Blade Dancers are forced to play as the fireteam medic because of their invisibility abilities, which is actually very helpful, but they do not hit the enemy hard (ever), and their super most often times get's them killed, unless they are using it to run away. Titans unfortunately perform poorly in the Crucible, because if you think about it lore wise, they are meant to hold the line, to lend support, to be the wall between the enemy and the innocent. They are meant to fight the enemy, not their allies. Likewise, Ward of Dawn is super helpful in many situations in PvE, and can be helpful in PvP. Striker can be offensively strong in PvP, but it's full potential is realized in PvE situations (being able to take out a whole area of enemies at once, not as high of a risk for Shoulder Charge, other things). Warlocks are the middle ground. They are powerful in both PvP and PvE almost equally, but do not excel in either. Radiance is a unique ability that is very annoying for enemies and other Guardians. Nova Bomb acts like Fist of Havoc but is safer to use. Various Warlock abilities reduce the cooldown of everything, a helpful ability in all fields. So, when you look at it that way, the classes are pretty balanced. Hunters excel in PvP, Titans excel in PvE, and Warlocks are decent in both.
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Couldn't read through the pile of salt in the way.
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Good players with good teams go to lighthouse. I've gone with every character. First to go was the warlock. Just saying.
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Edited by Soki: 7/2/2015 8:45:35 PMIdk man I started playing the hunter for toO and agree the super single target shut downs are real but in a crowd your dead half the time. Complain all you want. Each class has it's op bits about them Went flawless on the hunter for the first time and thought it was cause of my grenades and super but did it on my lock right after that. Each class plays it's roles
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IM LOLing OUT LOUD at the titan has the weakest Melee! HAve you actually figured out how to use your shoulder charge? Cuz its a one hit kill on anyone you come into contact with!
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My thoughts are u suck
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You mean sunsinger
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Lol scrub use a hunter and see the skill it takes to use it
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[quote] the hunter class is the easiest to pvp with. [/quote] No, it is the [u]best[/u] to pvp with, not the "easiest."
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In my opinion, it takes skill to use Hunters because it is super easy to kill someone who is using their super but for Warlocks and Titans during their offensive supers its hard to kill them. Titans don't deserve more armor or health because it's already stupid that they are already hard to kill.
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Hunters supers are PVP friendly, Golden Gun is basically unmatched as far as wiping out teams in small unit tactics. Did you know the Warlock can have as high of speed as a Hunter and more armor than a Titan? Crazy
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Please never post again
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Agility.
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See that tumble weed rolling in your post........................