Thread's purpose is to break down pvp misconceptions. Or rather commonly complained about things and phrases that people cite to prove said misconceptions. I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors. It's pretty early in the morning for me. [u]x gun is op.[/u] Gonna blow your mind on this one. If I can go into the crucible and take on that gun with any gun of my choice and win then it's not OP. Simple as that. "But Mongrel that's just because you were more skilled!" exactly. If player skill can over come a gun then the gun is not OP. Over powered basically means you can't beat it. No matter how good you are no matter what strat you use you will always lose because that thing is over powered. Simply put there is no OP gun in destiny currently. What people really mean is..... [u]X gun is better then most other guns.[/u] This is a semi true statement. But rather then discuss the validity of the statement we should actually be asking the question "is this okay?" and the answer surprisingly is yes. In destiny's case this exists because we have introduced rpg elements into pvp (ala weapon perks.) Some perks will end up being more useful then others. that's just how things work out. The important thing here is that the weapons might be better by default. but they don't break anything. which feeds back into my first point. As long as a reasonably skilled player can over come the weapon it's not a problem. In other shooters there are still better guns. In halo for instance the BR is better then most weapons in most situations. But it doesn't break the balance because player skill still means all the difference. Simply put at some point you will have to stop blaming the small advantages a gun has and start looking to improve yourself as a player. If you honestly truly 100% believe the "god tier" weapons hand free wins then I can't help you. [u]Trials/Iron banner is full of nothing but X.[/u] You'd be amazed how often this pops up. And again this really isn't an issue. why? well for one both game types have level advantages enabled. That should be everyone's first big hint. The second being IB literally states "bring the best gear" and you'd be foolish to think that trials isn't meant to be the same way. So we know now things are meant to be imbalanced. But hang on, it's actually more balanced then you think! If we all are (supposedly) using the same weapons with the best rolls guess what? No one has a weapon advantage! so it's all about skill as a player then which ironically is used in almost every hate thread about "same weapon spam" in these game types. [u]We want variety![/u] Don't we all? The problem here is that variety means a different amount to each person. Originally it was just the last word,hawkmoon, and thorn at the top. then we got the MIDA, vex, and red death. but people still ask for more. So tell me. We know have the capability to re roll any legendary (from HoW/iron banner) into perfect rolls. So please tell me. How much more variety can we even get? [u]Time to kill chart counter.[/u] I do not have the link. But basically people have been copying and pasting this TTK chart as a counter to prove said weapons are broken in terms of power. Now TTK is a very important stat. But sadly the chart is flawed. The TTK is achieved because on paper it's assumed to be in perfect conditions. No room for human error or compensation. No room for map advantages etc. Basically what i'm getting at is just because it has the kill potential doesn't mean that's the average. And honestly if we talked strictly TTK as the end all be all for power then both Universal remote and No land beyond are broken beyond belief because they can one shot. Hawkmoon too provided you luck out. [u]Common thorn complaints.[/u] I could list for days. But basically people cite a few things. it's "sniper" ability. it's "monster aim assist." and it's RoF at the same value as last word. First. Look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WIVLXxfPFM Basically this effectively shuts down any complaint about thorns monster aim assist. because the difference isn't even visible compared to hawkmoon which as only 15 points less aim assist. But also because red hand with hidden hand actually has the most aim assist on primaries and that is clearly visible! Next. it's sniping capability. Destiny IS NOT a standard shooter. Meaning range for everything (sans shotguns) dictates damage drop off. Not how far bullets go. Secondly at "sniper range" both snipers and scouts have better zoom, aim assist, less recoil on scouts per shot, and the ability to OHK at any range on snipers. Where as a hand cannon user gets no benefit from aim assist at those ranges, has no zoom, and has to deal with the monsterous visual/actual recoil per shot. Simply put the hand cannon can compete at that range but has much more working against it. If a player can snipe with a hand cannon it's because they are good. Oh and the RoF matching last word doesn't prove anything. LW still fires faster because the stat means different things for the guns. [u]Last word complaints.[/u] More or less takes a few from thorn in the complaints. so we will just copy and paste my answers. range doesn't matter because of what I stated earlier. It's got the fastest TTK of primaries excluding UR/NLB. true! However they need to be hipfire headshots. which even with the added benefits from the perks is still a difficult feat. And while you can simple hold the trigger down if you move at all while doing so your accuracy tanks. In order to actually make effective use of the hipfire bonus accuracy and damage you need to tap the trigger at the right times. And it's biggest advantage is that it's the best 1v1 gun. True. but if you have to fight more then one person at the same time you most likely die. this is because even at your worst and you 4 shot body shot both you can't miss at all and it relies on the 2 enemies to have worse aim combined then you to finish you first. [u]shotguns/blink OP.[/u] I will be the first to admit I defended the crap out of this. And I still do. But I will admit stepping back I can understand the frustration. But I'm here to tell you neither the shotgun or blink are the real issue. It's the map design. 90% of the maps currently in pvp cater to the exact ranges shotguns/blink/and hand cannons dominate in. Plus we also have movement abilities and unlimited sprint. In short if we want to see more of other types of guns (AR's excluded cause they need a damage buff) being used then we need more maps like widows court. [u]Hunters OP in pvp because of their supers.[/u] The evidence for this claim is that if you check an average hunter main they have more super kills then the other classes. and that most of the top players run hunters. This was countered ages ago. This is the reason because of 2 things. 1) hunters have more control over their supers. but they trade off this extra control by being easier to be killed mid super and that if they die when popping a super they lose it. 2) warlocks and titans have a habit of expending supers on single targets. Granted this is fine if you do so to counter another super or to kill someone with heavy. But for the most part you will see people just using it on one average threat target simply because they want a kill. If every single warlock/titan saved their supers to make plays on heavy ammo spawns or flag caps their super ratio would go up much more. [u]titans are the weakest in pvp.[/u] Simply un true. they are the hardest to use. Titans have the best nades (lightning and suppressor) titans have the ability to one hit almost anyone with their standard melee. this includes people mid super. Titans can carry 2 of the best nades in the game with an exotic. unstoppable fist of havoc Pretty much lets you live through anything. Defender titan with max armor improved force barrier with armor of light bubble will need a super to un root them. Titans are single handedly responsible for the unlimited super tactic in pvp because they have several methods to spawn orbs. even if you straight pop a defenders bubble with nova bomb thats 3 orbs right their for his entire team. almost enough for a super. Weapons of light lets you basically one hit people with most snipers and the hawkmoon can reg 2-1 shot if damage proc for one shot. Blessing with improved blessing is extra health on the go and is always able to be refreshed. Simply put anyone who has this mindset just doesn't know how to use a titan or is expecting too much. Think that pretty much covers it! if I forgot any misconceptions for pvp please let me know and I'll re edit the OP with my response~ thanks for reading <3