Yes i know they are still on the guns but you would also need to remove or erase alllll and i mean alll perks on the guns that have those perks meaning all old guns not just IB, I should have stated it more clearly all guns after and beyond HoW don't have the perka meaning it was removed from pool of perks, and even then [b]the only guns that can aquire them are old IB guns[/b] I'll also state that any gun can be countered it's not that hard.