Ok Here my Findings: [b]Overall there are three types of Timur's Lashes out there! [/b] Generation 1 (when we had the very first Iron Banner) http://destinydb.com/items/337037804-timurs-lash#14.h63uu7;15.2,0:3,0:4,2:5,5:8,1,0:9,1,0 Note: Generation 1 is the only version you can get "Life Support", Skip Rounds and a load out containing: Field Scout, Flared Magwell and Send it all in the same gun's middle column. This Gun still contains Crowd Control as a possible perk. Summary: This gun gives the best overall reload performance for this Hand Cannon and it can be used heavily as a PVE weapon more then all other iterations. Generation 2 (Expansion I Version): http://destinydb.com/items/2266591883-timurs-lash#14.k70qaq;15.2,0:4,2:5,5:8,2,0:9,0,0 Note: Expansion I version is the only one you can get "Who's Next Perk" and a load out containing: Perfect Balance, Flared Magwell and Send it all in the same gun's middle column. This Gun still contains Crowd Control as a possible perk. Summary: This gun gives the Best overall balance provided good Range, Reload and Damage for either PVP or PVE. Generation 3 (Expansion II Version): http://destinydb.com/items/3582249030-timurs-lash#14.1ykicqt;15.2,2:3,4:4,6:7,3,0:8,3,0 Note: Expansion II is the only gun to get flared magwell, "luck in the chamber" and "final round" on the same gun. Special Note: Send it, Perfect Balance and Crowd Control have been removed in Expansion II version in favor of those stupid give n take perks (ie. Small bore, brace frame etc.) that really undermine the performance of the gun really ruining it's overall stability, reload speed, range or magazine size in favor of a single thing such as range or stability or both. If you don't like this stick with the old or take heed of my above performance suggestions and look for Flared Magwell with the two damage bonuses. Summary: This is strictly a Boss Fight and PVP weapon only. PVE perks for damage, range and stability have been nerfed in many ways in favor of other PVP perks. Overall Generation 1 and 2 have the best overall balanced with performance for all play types. While Generation III (aka Expansion II) gives users the most impact bonuses for PVP at the cost of PVE perks and other items. Play around with the links to find what you would like to re-forge with. [b]My real load out is the following:[/b] I have the original Generation 1 Lash this is one focued on raw speed for PVE Raids with: -Spray and Play, Flared Magwell and Life Support. (ie. Life support can only be obtained from the Original Lash) This allows me to have the fastest reloading Timur's Lash in the whole game especially when you have Hand Cannon Gauntlets it's even faster. You can pretty much burn through all your ammo fast with this one. Also Life support help with boss Raids due to the fact if I get near critical damage I can get fast reload and get free bonus reserve ammo thus helping the non-stop shooting. http://destinydb.com/items/337037804-timurs-lash#14.h63uu7;15.2,2:3,0:4,3:5,5:8,1,0:9,1,0 My Generation II Lash (ie Expansion I): This one is considered my Boss Fight or PVP Lash. It's focus is very balanced with: -Spray and Play, Send it and Final Round. This allows me to get the best distance beating Hawkmoon's distance good reload similar to hawkmoon and final round that helps finish off Enemies in PVP and give bonus damage on boss fights. http://destinydb.com/items/2266591883-timurs-lash#14.k70qaq;15.2,0:4,2:5,5:8,1,0:9,2,0 My thoughts on the new Lash (Expansion II version aka Generation III) is that it's a great damage weapon poor reload weapon. Any of those give and take perks like Smallbore really inhibit the guns overall performance for just small bursts of damage. [b]Overall thoughts:[/b] The Biggest fault of the Lash is not it's impact or need for more damage bonuses but it's need for reload speed (stability is ok and can easily take some getting used too through practice). Thus for those looking for damage you may consider the new Lash from Expansion II. For those who love speed and Damage-over-time consistency (ie. the original Lash may be the best one for this if you still own it) you may want to hold onto your Original Lash or Expansion I version. I intend to collect them all for a good set of different Lashes for different battle situations (ie it makes re-forging easier to live with when you have more then one.) Have fun with those Lash's PS Stay Away from "ill will" if you know what's good for you. Ill Will just a cheep clone of the Lash with very small bump in range at the cost of Stability and Reload Speed enormously. Plus it has the Expansion II perks that really dont' help i much in terms of geting is reload speed and stability back.