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Edited by MiltonTheMango:
6/4/2015 8:29:28 AM
651
Why shouldn't thorn be nerfed in pvp (Resonable discussion)
Thorn is much better than every single weapon in pvp and if you believe in a balanced pvp you should want a nerf. If u don't tell me why. Please have well though out answers and no shit like 'git gud'. Be sensible
Edit: please try be constructive. I want this to be a discussion not people crying and moaning everywhere
Edit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1
Have a look at this
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all we need is an auto rifle buff. it needs a mid range competitor
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Edited by ExelArts: 6/4/2015 6:03:21 AMTo me it doesn't feel op but that's me red death has killed me more then thorn has but if you compare the dot perk of thorn it probably killed me more then the actual bullets of thorn has to me pulse rifles took the place of auto rifles and red death is a 2shot burst kill if you use it right
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I use it in PvP only. I started with plan c, moved to shotguns, now I'm on thorn and last word for PvP and let me tell you I was God awful with cannons and shottys. Why don't I think it should be nerfed? Well, because if it is....red death becomes the new thorn. You see it's a never ending saga imo. Out with one in with another. Rinse and repeat.
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I want it to be fair but I don't want bungie MURDERING it like the Mythoclast post nerf and pre buff or the auto rifles/suros. If bungie can give it a slight nerf but keep it on par with red death/Mytho/TLW/MIDA that'd be great
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1 ReplyI don't think any logical people want thorn nerfed into oblivion. Personally I don't even think thorn should be nerfed. I believe handcannon range as a whole should be nerfed. That's all. Let them still reign supreme at close range. Why bungie thought auto rifles were the close range gun and handcannons were far range weapons makes no sense.
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Thorn is NOT that great of a gun. got 3 of them and seldom even use them
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1 ReplyBiased poll is biased. Thorn is fine where it's at right now. Pre-buff it was garbage.
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When playing pvp I try not to run out in the middle of no where with no cover or concealment. Thorn is only good if they can hit you. With a 9 round cylinder just use cover. They will run out of bullets eventually or get impatient and rush to which you shoot them. See. There is a solution. Don't expose yourself to incoming fire. [spoiler]pvp irl bruh[/spoiler] [spoiler]lol[/spoiler]
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The problem is, is that if it needed one extra shot to kill someone what would make it so different from any other legendary handcannon??? The DOT wouldn't even be able to finish of the target of its damage was nerfed. So obviously the damage shouldn't be nerfed. It's performance should. Rof, reload, and accuracy is what comes to my mind to effectively nerf this super weapon. And yes I am biased. Cuz this thing is what I use religiously in crucible. First weapon I made 365.
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I like how this one says "in pvp" although this is a nerf post, its specific enough that I can agree because I don't play pvp that much.
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No the gun is fine, ARs just need a buff that's it, then again this has been going on for some time and nothing is being done about it
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2 RepliesSo from what i see most ppl want an exsotic gun to be put down to something less then a legendary. Everyone complains that NLB sucks because its perks are no good, why have them do it another gun. To night playing IB i think thorn got me maybe in 3 games other then that it was just normal damage to kill me.
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2 RepliesMy problem is I doubt that they will only nerf thorn. It will be all hand cannons. If it only effected PvP I would be fine but they rarely do that. Say goodbye to fate bringer being awesome in pve once they nerf the hand cannons. I might quit if they make fate bringer garbage because of crying kids in PvP
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2 RepliesNerf thorn then everyone goes to hawkmoon nerf that then to vex and red death nerf them then back to suros nerf it then back to thorn. See a pattern ? I use thorn but still get killed by vex midi and others nothing wrong with thorn with hawkmoon it's 1-2 dead no time to retaliate before dying. They only thing needed is ar returned to normal.
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It's not just Thorn. Hand Cannons in general are way too accurate for their rate of fire. Their impact ratings don't hinder their range ratings. And most of them have too large of a magazine. If they nerf the Hand Cannons then Pulse rifles will reign supreme. Is that what we want? Personally I would like to see all TTK's backed out to where Auto Rifles sit at the moment.
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This poll is really biased
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2 RepliesEdited by Tamed: 6/4/2015 4:25:52 AMTLW IS BETTER! No seriously, it is. I outgun Thorn users all the time with it. Idk if TLW has a hidden LiTC perk or if its just a bug but I get 111 critical hit damage while aiming down sights sometimes. I can two shot ppl with it. Please fix that. Also, the Thorn is not as OP as ppl say it is, think it is, whatever. But to please the crybabies I think they should reduce the range and/or reduce the damage per tick to 5 and/or reduce the amount of time the DoT stays on you and/or reduce its rate of fire and/or increase the recoil. Or just return it to its pre buffed state where it had 6 rounds. Also, get rid of the green goo that gets on your screen when shot. That shit is the most annoying out of everything. Sorry for the long post, I'm slightly drunk right now. :D
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1 ReplyI thought this was going to be a reasonable discussion. But already from your post you favor a nerf to Thorn. Nice way to start a unbiased debate.
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3 RepliesNormal hand cannons are a consistent 3 shot head shot and 4 shot body shot (without luck in the chamber and final round), but when the amount of shots needed is decreased by 1, it overpowers every other hand cannon
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1 ReplyOkay let's just think about its stats for a second. We all know the perk is slightly cheap but what the hell it's supposed to be. BUT the range should not be that of Hawkmoon. Why use such a pretty gun (gotta give it that) that has a "chance" for a 2 shot kill but Thorn is guaranteed at the same range. Sorry that it doesn't completely apply to Xbox users but oh well. All this being said just don't nerf it to hell.
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1 ReplyI'm not sure if nerfing Thorn is the right choice, as it would be better to rework/rebalance it. Though as someone who relies on trading blows with my target, it is a bad sign that more than half the trades result in a double knock-out due to the DoT. I've been killed by the passive more than the actual bullet, which is baffling to me.
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Because eventually all of the people will realize that there are strats to fighting and will get really -blam!-ed up. I use Hawkmoon, thorn, red death, jewel, etc. There are ways to counter anything
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Edited by JHarv: 6/4/2015 4:32:32 AMthorn should do 20% less damage than every other hand cannon, so the burn can make it even. the benefit of the burn is that it prevents recovery, allows you to track a target behind a wall, interferes with the enemies HUD. even then, if a headshot did say 66 damage, then the dot ticked it up to like 96, that would be reasonable. but 84 + whatever the dot is, another 28 or 35, is too much. having it essentially be a 2 headshot kill in like 0.3 seconds (when theres nothing you can do about the dot ticking you down to death afterward) is insane. i was more a fan of the time when suros was running rampant in the crucible. at least it took like 6 headshots for a kill. you could realistically juke that at least a little bit. the crucible is getting to the point where you really cant defend in it. if you're visible for any lenght of time, you're dead. may as well just make every gun a 1 hk and let everyone pick what the like. there has to be some kind of kill time on guns. so you can get stung, react, and maybe even counter. right now, you cant. hawkmoon, thorn, last word are used by pretty much everybody. admit it or not, this is the truth, and it's because they kill wayyyyyy faster than any other gun out there. red death, high impact pulse rifles and maybe the vex are close, but still can't really compete. especially when thorn and hawkmoon can fking snipe from across the map.
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Since HoW dropped I've seen a lot mote legendaries in reg crucible and IB. People only bring it up most because it's the most noticeable death.
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2 RepliesI believe they should revert the buff they gave it, and keep the mag size the same.
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I've outguned the thorn using my Vex. Is not that OP...
