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Edited by MiltonTheMango:
6/4/2015 8:29:28 AM
651
Why shouldn't thorn be nerfed in pvp (Resonable discussion)
Thorn is much better than every single weapon in pvp and if you believe in a balanced pvp you should want a nerf. If u don't tell me why. Please have well though out answers and no shit like 'git gud'. Be sensible
Edit: please try be constructive. I want this to be a discussion not people crying and moaning everywhere
Edit: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1
Have a look at this
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2 RepliesThis may be just personal skill/preference but my TLW out classes thorn 85 percent of the time
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Edited by SpeckTech: 6/4/2015 3:50:08 PMThe nerf I see is higher RoF, more stability/less recoil, less impact, 3 headshot or 3 body shot + MoD, which has increased damage against non guardians.
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In IB last night, I have right around a 1.0kd, and was only killed by thorn a handful of times. Suros just as much as thorn tbh... you just have to realize who the most dangerous players on the map are.
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If they do nerf they should do it in a fair way
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My problem with nerfing it would be that I haven't seen many suggestions that wouldn't make it worse than most legendaries. Take it so DOT doesn't kill you and you have just taken away the signature perk. If I remember right the impact and ROF are similar to word of crota. So it would be two head shots and a body shot without DOT to kill. So I could just use a different hand cannon from the same lower impact/higher ROF archetype and actually get to use all the perks. Reducing ROF means it now falls into the middle impact style hand cannon fire rate but with less impact. Means you would get out gunned and mostly get post mortem kills. Reducing range could work. It does have a lot of range of you spec for it. Maybe too much, though I've never really had a big issue there. Combine that with a slight reduction to reload speed so people can't spam shots and it might be a viable reduction. Doesn't help the main complaint that it is a two shot kill, but means it isn't as viable in some situations. The only other thing I can think would be to make it two body shots and a headshot to kill with DOT. Puts it on the same level shot wise as mid impact hand cannons, but with the faster ROF means you would have a slightly faster TTK. This would probably mean lowering the damage for the DOT, but increasing the length to an extra tick. Not a great option because it makes it less viable than a lot of the hand cannons in that class at that point. So yeah, most nerfs would probably hurt the gun way too much. It's not so easy to do without ending up with thorn going the way of auto rifles.
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2 RepliesI don't know why people are complaining, my Thorn can 3 shot people or 2 shot people if i can get down it's aiming right. My spare change despite being a pulse rifle can also 3 shot or two shot people what's the big difference.
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8 RepliesBecause if it gets nerfed for pvp it'll affect pve that's why
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6 RepliesPersonally I wish all the guns in the game were restored to day one base stats.
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I think that it doesn't need a nerf into the ground, but either the DoT needs to be brought down (along with the blinding green screen) or it needs to take more shots to kill, as most just hit you twice/ three times and then run away. Nothing crazy
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the fix would be easy just reduce the number of ticks the DoT lasts,cause 6 or 7 from one shot is insane.
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They should just keep the damage and lower the base stats like the reload and stability again but just not as much like the first version or do something to that affect. Or just make the gun have a poop ton of recoil so u cant just get those 2 headshots so easily.
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2 RepliesIt needs a gentle nerf. I just feel it should be two head shots [i]and[/i] a body shot in crucible. This would make all legendary hand cannons become relevant in crucible again.
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Just slightly nerf the after effect and rate of fire... Slightly
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No nerf. There needs to be a buff to auto rifles and the most recent fusion rifle nerf ruined the vex so buff that. Making other weapons more viable is better than nerfing the thorn
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3 RepliesI just want to be able to play with a variety of guns. If you want to be serious and win in the crucible, really thorn is the best option. Don't get me wrong I LOVE my thorn. It is just sad that when I say to myself I want to try out this different gun for a change I immediately get killed by thorn a lot more. I don't think it should be nerfed, I just think the gun choice in crucible are stale.
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Can we just stop nerfing guns? If they brought back auto rifles/fusion rifles there would be a lot of really good options and no one would complain as much because there would be more variety in what kills you. The only reason people (myself included) get frustrated with Thorn or TLW is because there's so many of them.
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It, and other hand cannons range needs to be adjusted. In mid range it should still be powerful but from a distance they shouldn't hit as hard as they do. The physics of hand cannons are all messed up. The mythical let down that they were supposed to have upon the hand cannon nerf never really did anything. Full disclosure. I use Hawkmoon. I would rather be using something like MIDA. But when the hand cannons range is twice the scout rifles it becomes almost necessary to fight fire with fire.
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I get killed by other weapons just as much as I get killed by Thorn. That's why.
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1 Reply1. You'll never have a balanced PvP weapon system as long as its connected with the one for PvE....and trying to balance it will destroy these weapon's usefulness for PvE play. Every weapon that Bungie has nerfed for PvP, play (except shotguns which Bungie buffed for PvE) has largely become useless for end-game PvE play. 2. Thorn is a weaker weapon today than it was back in January when it got its buff. Weaker because patch 1.1.1 applied a mild range and stability nerf. But you didn't hear calls to nerf Thorn back in January. Why? Because there werent' that many of them around....and because ARs were effective (arguably dominant) weapons. Anyone who carried Thorn----or any other hand cannon other than TLW----had to hang back at mid-range. Because if they crept too close in, they'd get owned by Suros Regime, Grim Citizen, Shadow Price....and the other top-tier ARs. Well with patch 1.1.1 ARs have been reduced to being weapons for campers and ambushers....and there is now no effective response to close range hand cannon fire. Other than ANOTHER hand cannon, or a long-range shotgun. Because ARs were broken...and fusion rifles had their teeth yanked and their ammo restricted.
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It's an exotic. It's supposed to be better in one aspect. Takes away from other exotic slots. Red Death counters Thorn. Stop trying to beat the thorn at its own game. If a gun is killing you. Alter your strategy. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and and expecting different results.
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Either nerf it or buff other exotics to match it.
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It shouldn't be nerfed because that bounty is the only challenging one since it requires a lot of void pvp kills then to kill a special wizard at the end of the pho goth strike. In my opinion t he bounty is just king I be hard for Brooke who don't have any of the raid weapons or void weapons to be precise and don't forget special is more scarce now so the bounty is once again more problematic.
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1 ReplyI think that the only positive Nerf I can think of is removing the dot if the player using thorn is killed. Let's say someone is hitting me with thorn and I out-gun them; I believe their dot should disappear from me so that it doesn't automatically kill me. This would remove a lot of given kills from thorn and reduce frustration by knowingly out-gunning someone but still dying anyway. Or reduce its fire rate. Idk, it can still be stopped pretty well if using red death to counter.
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5 RepliesFire rate decrease... that is all
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Edited by xStingingBEEx: 6/4/2015 2:51:08 PMEither decrease the ROF or make it so it has to get 3 headshots to kill not 2.
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I'm sorry, but if people can't counter Thorn, it is their own fault! I ran IB with the Hygiea Noblesse (331) with explosive rounds & firefly and out gunned Thorn users. Trust me, I am not skilled in PvP; I only run PvP for bounties or IB and I was able to keep my K/D above a 1.0 in almost all games (some dipped when I was distracted by my kids others jumped to 2.8 or better). Everyone screams for a Nerf when they don't have the gun or they assume they should have won because their gun should have been better. [b]IT'S NOT THE GUN THAT WINS, IT'S THE PLAYER USING IT![/b]
