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5/4/2015 2:34:00 PM
145
Thorn: Overpowered vs Overused
Thorn is currently a major cause of unrest within the Destiny community.
It is an exotic and Bungie has stated that they want exotics to be [i]somewhat[/i] overpowered.
Currently many people are on the fence if Thorn is in fact OP; my argument is that Thorn is [b]not[/b] OP, but OU.
[b]Poison Damage[/b]
Ah yes, the venom that eats your guardian's light from within, "OP" you may scream, but no, this is the main reason that Thorn is OU and not OP.
The thing about Thorn's poison damage is that it conditions people to[b]ALWAYS[/b] expect the kill after either two or three shots. Therefore I feel that Thorn is OU because it is [b]EASY[/b] not because it's OP.
[b]Breaking it down[/b]
What other weapon allows you to disengage after hitting an enemy a certain amount of times because you're guaranteed the kill? People will gravitate to what's easy [i]and[/i] effective vs what's effective but requires more skill.
The psychology of Thorn breaks down to "If I can hit them twice (head shots) or three times, I win." Seriously though, that's it, three times maximum and that player wins automatically while they get to engage another target without worry.
[b]Possible Solutions[/b]
First, Thorn does not need a nerf, rather, it needs [b]COUNTERS[/b].
Possible counters could be an exotic armor piece that negates the poison effect and/or poisons the Thorn user in retaliation.
A current counter in game is Red Death and the fact it heals you after a kill, problem is, you need to kill the Thorn user before they or its poison kills you.
[b]Conclusion[/b]
Thorn is OU due to its ease of use [b]NOT[/b] the fact that it is OP.
The Vex Mythoclast was OP in the past. With its fast fire rate and 56 head shot damage along with its 56 magazine with enhanced battery, it was too strong. There is nothing (imo) about the Thorn that makes it OP.
[b]TL;DR[/b]
The Thorn is OU due to its ease of use and is not OP, basically it's EZ MOAD.
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5 RepliesOne of my previous posts. I couldn't find the thread, but here it is. Note: TLW's TTK is actually [i]lower.[/i] Ridiculous. Pre-post *The Hawkmoon is actually way more balanced than TLW/Thorn. Its stability isn't great, and its TTKC isn't completely outrageous when compared to other guns. *I am an avid user of both guns. I want them balanced because I dislike being forced to use them in order to counter them (why I use them). *No, I don't think other guns should be buffed to match these (if you were going to propose this, that just proves how out of line these guns are) because that would be 20x harder than simply balancing these 2 weapons. (TTK = time to kill) (TTKC = time to kill crit) (ADS = aim down sights) TLW TTKC: .56 Thorn TTKC: .36 (this is how long it takes to land two head shots. The number .36 does not account for the burn damage after the two head shots are landed.) [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tTMPEAOhYplzPIA4B07pBhQ/htmlview]Spread sheet[/url] First of all, if you're one of the few people that are actually willing to take this thread seriously, take a look at that spread sheet and pay attention to the "Time To Kill Crit" column. The hand cannon class, specifically exotic hand cannons, are vastly superior to literally every other weapon except for Red Death and Vex Mythoclast. They're two tenths of a second better than every other primary, and one tenth of a second better than the Mytho & Red Death. This means that if two players, one with TLW and one with RD, are fighting head to head, and both players are using the guns to their full potential, TLW will win 100% of the time. And no, saying "well stay out of close range to avoid TLW" isn't a valid option because of the current maps. The Last Word (TLW) I'll start with TLW. First of all, TLW's exotic perk is broken. It's supposed to deal bonus damage when hip fired, right? Well, currently it's bugged and exploitable. Ever notice how sometimes you'll ADS with it and gain bonus damage? That's the bugged part. Sometimes it randomly decides to give you extra damage. However there's currently an exploit (or bug or whatever you want to call it. Idc about the technicality) that allows you to gain the bonus damage while ADS'd 100% of the time. And it's really easy! All you have to do is press the right trigger before you press the left trigger. Keep both pressed down and bam. 111 head shots for days (I don't mind giving this info out because the more people that do it/know it, the faster it gets patched!). This means that even at medium range TLW can achieve its .56 TTKC fairly consistently. This is specially broken for skirmish where TLW shines, even without abusing its broken perk. Fix: The perk should obviously be fixed. I think we can all agree on that, even if you don't think exotic HCs are OP. The RoF also need to be lowered. I'm not sure how much it needs lowering, but I'll throw out a number and say 2%, giving other weapons a chance against this silly weapon. Thorn Thorn's TTK is a bit confusing. The chart says .36, but that isn't its true TTK if we're being technical. That time (.36) is how fast you can land two head shots, which with the Thorn's stability, isn't too hard for competent players. Of course the enemy isn't immediately dead after two head shots, they still have to burn (so they're basically zombies after two head shots). I accept the number .36 as Thorn's true TTKC because most players blink away to cover after doming someone twice. .36 is MILES above ALL other weapons. That number is better than most LMGs! And the "stay out of close quarters" is an even less valid solution to countering this gun because of its range. Fix: Remove the perfect balance perk from Thorn's tree and reduce its RoF by around 5%. TL;DR: No. Read the post. I'll be ignoring "git gud" type posts unless I need bumps.
