We have Pvp players that don't want nerfs. We have Pve players who don't want nerfs. While these two are at odds with one another, they do not want unjustified nerfs because they hurt the game. Pva (player versus anything(pvp + pve players)) players do not necessarily like nerfs either. Nerf Enthusiasts are the problem. This is what we should call them, and they should not be mistaken for Balance Gurus. Nerf Enthusiasts simply want nerfs because they think something is unbalance without really understanding why they're wrong. Balance Gurus understand what's unbalanced because they study data and patterns.

Bump

Right on. Thank you for this post.

So if I play PvE most of the time, but I have a 1.0+ K/D in the Crucible, what does that mean? Does my opinion matter?

I like how it's Lord Saladin who posted about this.

This has been my exact point of view. Sniping is unforgiving for everyone unless they have tons of practice with them in the crucible and/or they camp. It's hard for me being a sniper in everything when the maps are this unblanced. Bastion and first light are my favorite maps and always will be until either the zoom on sniper scopes are reduced or more maps are made that have less cover. There are too many obstacles in the current maps. I'm not a total mlg gamer with a 3 k/d but I've been doing more crucible lately (finally got all characters to at least 26 light) and I did manage to complete the thorn bounty so I'm not a total noob making unwell thought out assumption. This is just my opinion.

ARs were nerfed only for PVP. That nerf ruined ARs for PVE. They're just not used anymore. So tell yourself it was a balance issue on both sides all you want, it's not true though. I play PVE mostly, but venture into the Crucible from time to time. I do pretty well most of the time. I've never cried nerf, because most of the time I'm killed it's from laggers, which the Crucible is full of. I agree that the maps are not diverse enough to promote different playstyles. I agree that all weapons have a counterpart. I've never been the idiot that thought I was going to take a scout rifle and win a fight in close quarters against a shotgun. My point is that everyone's feedback is valuable, no matter skill level or what activity you play most of the time. Ultimately, Bungie has the responsibility to balance the weapons out. Their responsibility to do the research and testing required to make solid decisions about nerds or buffs that affect the entire game. But they have failed most of the time, and it's their incompetence you should be railing on.

I dont agree with disregarding certain players from feedback because of KD though.

I am a primary PvE guy and only due PvP during Iron Banner or for exotic bounties. My KD ratio is not good. I hate when people cry for Nerfs. It diminishes the achievement of acquiring said gun. You bust you ass to get most weapons. They should be fun to use. It also ruins that weapon in PvE. When I die in Crucible it's cause of something I did wrong. It's my job as the player to find a way to overcome that mistake. Not to cry about it. In my opinion most people just don't understand how properly play a FPS. It's not all Rambo up or Camping. Each match presents a different scenario. Use your environment, attack from a different position, flank, throw grenades before you breach a fortified position. To many people just running around not thinking better of tactics. Play smarter not harder. No one gun is OP never was. Combine any gun with the proper load out in gear and in the right hands then it's a beast. Alone and it's just a gun. Shots can be avoided.

I agree with you and Im a PVE player mainly. Pretty sure my KD is below one and I almost never stray into crucible. I have never cried nerf nor will I. But heres the problem and it leads to the nerf complaints of others, Bungie has forced PVE players into crucible with IB and exotic bounties. This ofcourse inflates the number of people playing PVP, but it degrades the quality of gameplay. Match that with poor P2P connection and no banning of "switchers" and the PVE player naturally feels the crucible is unbalanced (which honestly it is, but because of level design not weapons). The real fix for this will never be done by Bungie because Activision wont let them. But to really give a good PVE and PVP experience they have to be made mutually exclusive. No exotic bounties with PVP aspects, stop rotating the play modes (CA,Salvage, etc), setup dedicated servers and monitor connectivity rates. Bungie wont do it because they don't want their PVP percentages to go down (last shown to be around 17% of playtimes). Bungie would lose a lot of their supposed "Hot Fixes" issues they say they are working on for us and therefore would appear to not be doing anything. Which would cause people to move on quicker, PvP patching is quicker and easier to do based on the relative fixed variables of crucible matches. This way they can say they are listening and appear to be making the game better, but really its carrot on a stick time. They refuse to fix the major problems that granted are mostly on the PVE side or to develop more events and content to keep the PVP inept out of the crucible. They will not establish dedicated servers (atleast not during this games lifetime) because its an increase in cost and manpower, plus if something is laggy in P2P Bungie can just say it has nothing to do with them. Anyway my rather long point is, while I agree nerfing of any weapon was bad and never should have occurred. The blame is only partially on the player complaining, the real blame is on bungie for making the different modes co-dependent on each other. Cheers

So what your saying is that if i said nerf something my opinion should be ignored because pve more thats some solid logic Btw ive used said nerfed weapons theyr fine its people who overreacted over their poor ARs that are the crybabies

Ok, riddle me this shitface. If its not pvp crying for nerfs then who is it? Why would a pve player ever want a nerf on a gun? It doesnt make sense dude.

Bungie never nerfed anything because somebody cried nerf. Bungie makes nerfs because they didn't ship a finished game. There's not even an fwc auto rifle to be had in the game wtf

OK, just because someone (like me) has more time in PvE doesn't mean their opinion should be disregarded. I must have almost 200 hours in crucible, and a 1.3 K/D. IMO, shotguns are OP BECAUSE of the map design. Combined arms should definitely be a permanent playlist, I feel like they just removed content from the game. I would prefer that skyshock (which I truthfully don't like that much) and all future large scale maps be added for variety, but due to the way lobbies and DLC works it won't happen. Also, I'm fine with exotics being a little overpowered in crucible (I have 23 of the 24). The problem for me is that many are more OP than others. All I really ever use is the thorn, and it's getting boring.

I'm not sure why you expect mature responses when your 2 "solutions" are juvenile asshattery but yolo I guess.

Look at that, a real pvp player who gets it. I guess not very forum poster is a crybaby scrub.

I've been checking the playtimes of people posting nerf threads. Mostly PvE players that thought human opponents would act like Bungies stellar mob AI.