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3/10/2015 11:40:38 PM
28
Auto Rifle weapons are the easiest to use, so therefore they should be the weakest.
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Easiest = weakest are serious!? Have you ever played any other fps?
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I have. Weapons that are easy to use should be weaker than weapons that are hard to use. One good example is BR vs AR.
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Excellent example. This actually reenforces your point strongly in a way that I didn't consider.
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For clarification by weakest, I would assume something like this: Fastest average handcannon TTK: .7 seconds Fastest average Scout Rifle TTK: .8 seconds Fastest average Pulse Rifle TTK: .9 seconds Fastest average Auto Rifle TTK: .95 seconds This is just what I think that average should be, Exotics usually have a faster kill time than the average. Right now, the average Auto Rifle TTK is about 1.05 seconds. By making the average to .95, the damage would be increased slightly, but not to where they were. For example, SUROS is doing 31-32 and prepatch was doing about 37. To make the kill time more fair, the damage should be about 33-34 per headshot (depending on ballistics). This might still seem low, but 34 per headshot is a 6-shot kill (what it was pre-patch) on all classes, while 33 per headshot is a 6 shot kill on Hunters only and 7 on Titans and Warlocks with high armor.
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Edited by Aiden985: 3/12/2015 11:05:22 AMMade up statistic is made up. Doesn't matter really its an auto weapon for a reason shouldn't trump other weapons as much as did, but I haven't played much since 1.1.1
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It didnt trump; it was just as good as any other. Just who uses them made difference. If i went my suros against a pocket infinity i can't garruntee i'd win pre patch or not
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Edited by That Zexi Guy: 3/12/2015 11:07:11 AMMy guesses were based off of hard evidence. Obviously you will find slightly different numbers if you do actual calculations, but I did mine at a glance. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/edit#gid=0 This is a collection of the TTKs of all the most used weapons in the game. So no, it's not a made up statistic.
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where is the proof you showed me a google doc of some guy posting numbers no hard evidence. Also still doesn't mean they need a buff since its dated info and the guy says they are estimates. Maybe you should read the doc before presenting it as a valid source.
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Last update was two weeks ago. What do you need proof for? I said I made guesses based on the information in the doc. The doc is more valid than anything you have to offer. Regardless, there is nothing I said that you can prove is wrong or outdated. I have a SUROS, so I can confirm all those numbers and the kill time. In fact, I have almost all the most used Crucible weapons in the game, so I can confirm everything in this doc. I'm not really sure what you're trying to argue or get at, but you can continue if you want, because everything I said was right, so I don't really know what your point is, besides what we already agreed upon (Autos shouldn't beat others if both players are accurate)
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Because the stuff you posted has no evidence backing them you think you so much just because you spout numbers.
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The stuff I posted, including the doc, is evidence. You can run a test yourself and find the same values that are written in the doc,
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How that doc doesn't even specify if it's a PVP or PVE study no equation shown no experiment and is doesn't even have anything that prove what was posted. Therefore invalidates it as a valid source
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Slightly weaker. Not much weaker.
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Yes, I do agree they should be the weakest but not as weak as they made them.
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Edited by Wraithlegend: 3/12/2015 11:01:10 AMAgree. No way are they going to win against the last word.
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At close range*
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Seen people use it at long range.
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Long range as in scout rifle territory which some AR can do better than the Last word
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In the Crucible Guardians are flying all over the place. It takes a calm hand to control the bursts/full auto to take down a guardian flying straight at you.
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Edited by That Zexi Guy: 3/12/2015 6:46:56 AMAuto Rifles in this game are very consistent. I just got my SUROS a day ago, and it is a very consistent weapon. You rarely miss with it, and if you do, there isn't a huge penalty. A weapon that is so consistent (and easy to use) should not have a kill time that is so high. On the other hand, people complain about hand cannons, but hand cannons are VERY inconsistent. When I first started this game, I had so much trouble aiming with hand cannons. Yes, they have very fast kill times, but you have to work for that kill time a little more than you would an auto rifle. It's kind of like how ARs and BRs were in Halo. It was hard to miss with an AR, so you could always count on getting a kill in x amount of time. BRs were less consistent because you actually had to aim, but if you had to skill to aim, you would kill faster than an AR.
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Then explain shotguns with that logic. :P
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Shotguns are the easiest to use of the special weapons, and they are also the weakest of the special weapons. Snipers are the hardest to use, but also the most powerful. Sniper can potentially 1hit kill from ANY range. Shotguns can only 1 hit kill from a very short range. The other things is consistency. Auto Rifles are very consistent (in their respective ranges). It is difficult to miss with them, and even if you miss a shot, you aren't penalized very much. Shotguns are also very consistent (in their respective ranges). You can expect to 1 hit kill in their respective ranges, and even if you miss, you aren't penalized because you can quickly follow up with a melee or another shot.
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Edited by Always Feral: 3/12/2015 7:27:01 AMNot really, man. In PvP, as long as you're within the effective range, you're almost guaranteed a OHKO with a shotgun. And considering the large amount of close-quarters maps, it's generally pretty easy to be in range. They're easy to use and the most powerful. You can't finish off a fusion rifle victim with a quick melee if your aim is off a bit, and a sniper rifle isn't guaranteed to kill with one hit anywhere on the body like a shotgun, unless you're exploiting the Final Round perk. In PvE, they're still easy to use and now [i]immensely powerful[/i]. Which is fine, really, because they seriously needed a reason to use in PvE over the safe bet of a sniper rifle or the easy middle-ground of fusion rifles. Now they're more of a high-risk, high-reward weapon class. Alternately, Auto Rifles were not the easiest class of weapon to use. There is no generous hitboxes for headshots like the Handcannon, the clean precision of Scout Rifles or the easy target tracking of Pulse Rifles. They also have the lowest critical hit modifiers of any primary. Granted, during launch they were incredibly OP and needed a nerf but they've overdone themselves this time and completely taken a weapon class out of anything resembling a viable option.
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If we assume a player can always get the fastest kill time, then they would be most efficient with a sniper. GENERALLY, snipers are always the most powerful secondary/special/whatever category of weapon in any FPS game. I disagree. I just got the SUROS yesterday, but I have used other auto rifles before. I do not miss with auto rifles. I'm always going to hit my target, and even if I do miss, it's not a big deal. Each shot MATTERS for hand cannons and scout rifles, but not so much for auto rifles. And, even though I'm using an unleveled SUROS (only focus fire unlocked), I find I have extremely consistent kill times. I'll always achieve the fastest kill time on an enemy (which is around a second) because with a SUROS, you just don't miss. And, the flinch modifier allows me to mess me enemy's aim up. So.. I don't know what you're smoking. Most people will agree that snipers are the most powerful special, but are harder to use. Many people use shotguns just because they are easy to use. Likewise, automatic rifles are very easy to use. It's difficult to miss with them. Also, the auto rifles that took the most nerf were the high impact, low RoF ones.. Those were the ones with the high consistent kill times, and that's why they were nerfed because a weapon that is that easy to use should not be so powerful. Auto rifles with high RoF and low impact were not even touched.
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Shot guns r hard to use therefore high damage
