All because of the templar fix.
Unless you have an experienced raid team and good weapons the hard mode raid is an excruciatingly painful experience.
Templar is easily the hardest part of the raid. Without the cheese my raid team and I get stuck at templar for hours sometimes. We never cheesed atheon or NM Templar. We only cheesed HM templar to get to the rest of the raid without wanting to throw our ps4s out the window.
The hard raid is no longer worth it imo.
Hopefully bungie get things right with crotas end.
Edit: What I'm trying to say is that HM templar is harder than it should be and sometimes causes so much frustration that I would rather not do the raid at all. I have beat HM templar many times legit. Just sharing my opinion about the fight.
Edit: Didn't think this would cause such a stir.
Reading through the responses has made me realize how toxic this community is.
Apperently opinions aren't welcome here.
Though I did see some light in the darkness.
IE. people respecting my opinion even if they disagreed
Edit: I want to make it clear that I don't like to cheese or ever relied on the cheese. My raid Team and I are very experienced in the VoG and have beat HM templar many times. I just feel templar needs a little tweeking.
If you think I'm just a scrub and I should "get gud" then that's your opinion and I will respect it.
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The Templar is ridiculously easy. People have beaten him alone without cheesing. It boggles my mind that this is actually something people are complaining about. Unfortunately, I CAN see where you're coming from about it not being worth it. It used to be super easy to get loot from the Templar, and now it's a fight a lot of people have to learn for the first time. It's pretty stupid to have to do much more work for the same drops. But complaining it isn't fun anymore? That, now [i]THAT[/i] is ridiculous. Do you really mean to tell me that cheesing him was [i]fun[/i], and now it's not fun because it's a challenge? If the only "fun" part of the raid is getting loot, that is pretty sad. For everybody that always cheesed him, they have basically included a NEW BOSS. Cheesing him was stupid and boring. Kinda a mockery of the entire raid. Frankly they need to give Atheon a 3x health buff and start player spawns on the central conflux once you're in the oracle phase. But I'm probably one of like two people with this opinion.