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originally posted in: The Dark Below
10/30/2014 12:56:27 AM
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Dear Bungie, Destiny simply isn't what I expected. I've had great respect for the work you guys do from the first time I played Halo with my friends, and I followed the Destiny buildup until its release with edge-of-my-seat anticipation. To me, there's no story more compelling than that of humanity's very survival, and no pursuit more noble than fighting for the preservation of our species. It's what drew me to Halo, and what drew me to Destiny. It's teams of artists such as yourselves, who recognize the inherent nobleness of this concept and seek to bring it to millions, that inspire me, that give me something to look forward to after a long day at the office, that offer me the chance to escape a reality where the difference I make is marginal at best, and enter a reality where I have the chance to make a difference that feels like it matters, if only for a couple of hours every night. You brought me that sense of purpose and inspiration with Halo. But I don't feel this anymore. In Destiny, with a full loadout of legendary and exotic gear and having played through the full story, experiencing what the Crucible has to offer, battling my way through countless strike missions, finishing every bounty 100 times over, and exploring the complete extent of every map, I'm...bored. But it's worse than being bored. I don't feel anything. I've stuck with the game all these hours, whole days, desperately seeking to feel what I expected to when I first read about Destiny so many months ago. It isn't there. Although I initially thought that the lack of story was the problem, I've come to realize that the lack of story is only the tip of the iceberg. It's the part that's visible, that every Guardian who's also searching for that sense of purpose and fulfillment in Destiny can readily point to and say "That must be it". And it's a very valid concern. But the core problem with Destiny runs much deeper. The core problem, as far as I see it, is that you're utterly alone in the game. I'll attempt to expand as best I can. The reason the raid works so well (and is arguably the most successful part of the entire Destiny endeavor) is that it requires massive amounts of teamwork. It provides, upon beating Atheon, a sense of reward and togetherness that no other part of the game currently gives you as a player. I feel as though the team at Bungie would like to bring this experience to the wider majority of the game, but is confused as to how to do so, or is otherwise very conflicted as to how to go about doing so. I want to assure you that doing this would be exceptionally easy, and would make Destiny the game you want it to be and the game that we, the players, want it to be. My suggestions operate on the assumption that most Destiny players care about the notion of fighting for humanity. It is the premise of the entire game, the reason anyone who enjoys PvE wanted to become a Guardian in the first place. With that in mind, Bungie needs to begin addressing the issue of feeling alone in the game by giving players a shared experience outside of the raid. Sure, if you have enough friends with the game, you can link up a fireteam and do some of the same 4 strikes (now a staggering 5 strikes for only $19.99 on Xbox) you've done 5,000 times over, but the only emotional appeal to this is that you're doing something with your friends for a while, until you get bored, and let me assure you, killing the Archon Priest for the zillionth time is boring - boring enough that the friends I used to play with have quit the game. I feel that many can relate to this situation. In order to make your players feel something deeper and continue to invest in Destiny, we need to be able to actually fight for the very survival of humanity. Other people have left comments regarding this, and I'm mirroring their ideas and sentiments and not claiming them as my own, though I've had the very same thoughts as them for some time now. Bungie needs to actually put humanity on the brink. As Guardians, we need to be able to get an alert from The Tower while we're out collecting Spinmetal that The City is under a massive attack by The Fallen. We need to be able to see all the players around us disappear, heading to orbit just like we are, mashing our controllers to take us all back to defend The City. Upon arriving, we need to see droves upon droves of enemies marching to the walls, and have a way to get out in front of the walls to fight them in the plains before they reach the gates (troop transport ships on a loop that fly you over the city and drop you into battle, anyone?). We need to see dozens of other Guardians fighting tooth and nail to defend the last bastion of humanity alongside us, and we need this on at least a weekly basis. These kind of encounters can play out all over the solar system, and last a day at a time, giving many players the chance to enter the fight. Ground must be gained and lost, territories threatened, The City seen teetering on a precipice before you and your fellow Guardians prevail (or don't, which leads to many other, ridiculously interesting options for the game, and opportunities to fight for what is lost). Again, I don't claim such ideas and sentiments as my own, but I wanted to articulate them here in the hopes that someone with a voice inside Bungie HQ might raise these ideas that I very much believe thousands of players yearn for. If ideas like this were baked into the game, this crippling sense of solitude that one often feels while playing would effectively disappear, because we'd all be fighting for something together - something tangible, that we could see and feel and believe in. While you, Bungie, continue to release patches nerfing hard-earned exotic weapons, killing loot caves, restructuring the raid to prevent players from beating it with human ingenuity, and announcing DLC content that is quite honestly very lackluster and addresses none of the deep, even psychological ineptitudes within the Destiny universe, I assure you that even if the current numbers say otherwise, you are not building a 10 year franchise. Or a 5 year franchise. I'll be curious to know what those numbers reveal once other games are released through the holiday season. Somehow, I don't think they'll be very promising. Not considering what you gave us at launch, and how little you continue to give us. Destiny was a promise of something incredible that never was and still isn't. It could still become that, but my hope is waning, and that's a real shame, because this world you made for us, this repetitive, empty world - it's very pretty. Thanks for your time. I hope I get the chance to thank you for your efforts in the future.
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  • I'm with you. By the time you hit endgame in Destiny, the experience is like watching paint dry. No more challenge, no more surprises, just busy work with no point other than quenching OCD. If this game doesn't inject some purpose back into the gameplay, everyone and their dog is just going to give up on it.

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  • Edited by IxbuttersxI: 11/10/2014 9:22:07 AM
    Shamanism

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  • City battle sounds awesome. Bump!

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  • Bump Apollo much blam-ing BUMP

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  • I think it's really sad that you are looking for validation and purpose for and in your life through a video game. I think that the game might not be he problem here.

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  • Looking for a sense of achievement in a game. More of an attachment to the story

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  • I can understand a sense of achievement. From reading the post it seems to me he is expecting much more. Maybe he is just being over dramatic to get his point across.

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  • Edited by genkailight: 11/10/2014 7:55:49 AM
    In nearly all mmo or RPG games, there have always been a sense of purpose or goal. Final fantasy, be the best ninja. Be able to solo hard bosses. WoW, conquer shit. In destiny, there is no purpose at all. When you get to lvl 30, you can't even show off that power on low level fallen. Like you will never become legendary. You will always be a common player, a uncommon player at most, a rare player if you have no life. But never become legendary because you cant demonstrate being legendary if other players who be getting lucky rewards to get to lvl 30 fast are common players. Nothing can separate you. So doing 1000 strikes per month is pointless. The grind is pointless. No desire or feeling after you done.

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  • I understand that and that makes sense to me. However, the author is taking it to another place entirely. He's looking for something " to believe in" and "purpose". That will never be something that can be conveyed in a video game no matter how good the story or development team. I understand your point and I agree wholeheartedly. I do not agree with the original poster.

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  • A sense of purpose is absolutely doable in a game, and any gamer would tell you that. Look at Halo, saving the universe. Look at Zelda, saving Hyrule. These games had lasting impressions on the players in nearly equal magnitude, even though they were different play styles, because they had amazing story and meaning to the characters in it. The story in destiny? Repel the "darkness", which is at least 4 different factions all fighting each other who really don't even care about you unless you happen to interrupt their own battles.. Bleh, not at all what I expected from Bungie

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  • Absolutely. Bungie seems to have forgotten that it's the story which makes people want to be invested in the universe, not shaders.

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  • I think our definitions of purpose are different in this instance. What I take from the original post is not a purpose for the character but a conveyance of that purpose to the player. Destiny is not the game it was hyped up to be, that is true. I do not believe, however, that purpose is something that a purpose is something that can be given to someone from digital media. Regardless if the game where what it was marketed to be or not. Maybe I am taking the poster out of context, but re reading the post I don't think I am.

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  • Also, if the game is done well, there is no difference between purpose for the character and purpose for the player. When I play Zelda I am not not playing as Link, I AM Link, and I am saving Hyrule from Gannon. When the world is saved, Link didn't do it, I did. That's the power of gaming, and why we are gamers at all.

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  • I suppose we will have to agree to disagree at this point. I have played games since I was pounding away on the Atari and although I love them and enjoy every minute I get to play, they do not give my life purpose in any way. A purpose is determined by deep rooted values and belief systems that drive an individual towards an ultimate goal that is beneficial for their psyche and their prosperity. If I fail at a game and die it might annoy me or anger me but my reality has not been shattered or effected. I believe when we start confusing the word "purpose" and its implications we fall into the trap of those who would strive to vilify our gaming experience and cite examples of those who confuse the "fantasy with the reality". If an individual truly derives his or her life's purpose on fighting the darkness within the fantasy world of a video game... I would suggest that individual super are himself from those games immediately as that is not a healthy psychological reaction to the media.

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  • But when you fight to save the world, even in a game, aren't you mirroring those same "deep-rooted" values through your choices in-game? I understand what you are saying about games not being reality and I agree with you. But in my opinion that is all the more reason they should be epic. If I want repetitive grinding I have a job IRL for that exact experience. When I sit down to play I should be left with a feeling that I have taken part in a unique experience. Now you can argue that the experience doesn't mean much to you because it's just media, and that's ok. I, however, still remember the first time my raid took down Ragnaros after weeks of failed attempts in Molten Core in WoW. Ventrillo exploded as 40 people were simultaneously cheering from all over the country. It was exciting and rewarding and I was running around my house high-5ing people! It had stopped being just media at that point. That's what we want more of. Nights like that..

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  • I completely get that sense of achievement and euphoria surrounding accomplishing something difficult that you have worked hard for. I get that same feeling quite often playing games as well. I agree that our games should make us want to jump up and down, pumping out fists in victory when we deliver the final blow to our enemy and save the kingdom or what have you. There is nothing wrong with that and that experience can be developed and engineered through game design. Reading this very eloquent individuals letter, I believe his longing for completion dips further than those experiences, and even if I have him pegged incorrectly there are people out there that hang their very existence on striving to find a "purpose". You can manufacture an experience as you have stated and "empathize" and identify with a character but when you are striving to find something to cling to in your real world life... Finding a "purpose" in video games is not a healthy option. Surely you would agree with that?

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  • In the strictly clinical sense, yes I would. But people have always looked to the arts for inspiration. Unlike past mediums games changed our connection to the story from passive to active so its that much more disappointing when we don't feel connected to it. I think that's the only thing really being conveyed here.

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  • Separate himself*. Damn autocorrect

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  • It can be provided from digital media and it is happening all the time through games and movies and other creative outlets. Go watch Interstellar in theaters and try to tell me you feel nothing. The OP wants to feel something when he plays. Of course we want our media to provide this. Life is boring and repetitive; our games shouldn't be.

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  • My point is that an individual looking for a purpose in life is not going to find it in a video game or for that matter a movie. Emotional connection and reaction to media is not a purpose it is a chemical reaction in the brain. A purpose if felt much deeper. While the purpose of link is to rescue the princess and save Hyrule, that is not the purpose of the player in his or her own life. Struggling to find purpose through a video game will get you nowhere. If life is so boring a repetitive that they have to seek out this purpose in some sort of digital media then, again, I don't believe the problem lies within the game.

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  • Honestly, I can't believe that you were so concerned about my psychological well-being that you wrote more words in your replies than I did in my actual post. I appreciate it, but dude...relax. Of course I was embellishing to some extent to get my point across. Of course I'm not looking for an actual purpose to my own existence in the universe through a video game. I'm a pretty healthy individual. I teach college English classes and find a great sense of reward in my work now and again, when I encounter a student who truly invests in bettering themselves. I'm also writing a novel, and have received extremely positive responses to my work from successful individuals in the creative writing field. I'm simply very interested in humanity as a species, and spend a lot of time thinking about our place and our species' purpose in the universe, and therefore was drawn to a game like Destiny, which I thought would trigger further contemplation regarding this "human question", and was disappointed when it did not. As another poster said, it's the same feelings like-minded people seek when watching a film like "Interstellar", and I think it's a pretty pervasive one across mankind. Am I looking for purpose in my own life, on a micro level? No. I have a loving woman by my side, a steady paycheck, I create art, and have the honor of teaching young minds how to think critically and communicate. The purpose I seek is a purpose for our species, for humanity itself. And seeing how brutally Congress has slashed NASA's budget, seeking that feeling of purpose is best done through media, at least for this moment in history. Don't worry about me, man. I'm gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay. We're all gonna be okay.

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  • I think your original post said it best. There is a sense of loneliness in the world they created. It makes me wonder if it was intentional. I was surprised to learn through the app that you can create and join groups. There is no link to this in-game and there are very few social interactions between characters at all. I can't figure out if this was a clever design decision against a vast and quiet space setting, or just a tragic mistake in what was supposed to be an MMOFPS. I want to believe the former, but it's more likely the latter unfortunately.

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  • Agree completely.

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  • To be completely honest, your original post makes it sound as if you are on the verge of some existential crisis, simply because the game is not as fun or immersive as you thought it should be. Very rarely do you see such heartfelt and philosophical postings regarding purpose and meaning over something as trivial as a video game. I am glad to hear that you are well adjusted, well balanced and successful. Your embellishments on the issue of the video game "Destiny" and the upswell of importance you put on its ability to convey purpose was very confusing to me outside of the context of just getting your point across.

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  • Sorry, man. I sniped you a bit in my reply. Didn't sleep real great last night. I can totally see how it would seem that way. I simply wanted to overstate my sentiments to make the posting more impactful, and overall, 2300ish replies, most of them positive, is more than I hoped for. I just hope Bungie takes notice and considers implementing some of the ideas I discussed. I truly believe the game would be better as a result.

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