originally posted in:Thorny Guardians
Dear Guardian,
As much as I like to help and encourage people I must stress a few reasons why you [u][i]SHOULD NOT[/i][/u] be taking part in a Raid on The Vault Of Glass.
[u][b]1. You are below Rank 27.[/b][/u]
The lower your Rank, the less damage you can do. And I mean waayyyy less! At Rank 25 you are looking at a 43% reduction in damage output!
[u][b]2. No Mic.[/b][/u]
You refuse to use your mic or you don't have one or people in your house are sleeping. For whatever reason, you are not on your mic. Communication is absolutely 100% critical in the VoG. Sometimes you even need to back out into Orbit to fully discuss and strategize. Impossible if you are not using your mic.
[u][b]3. Party Chat.[/b][/u]
Even worse than not having a mic is not joining (or leaving) a Party Chat. The game volume is less loud when you are in a Party Chat , as opposed to in game chat, so its easier to communicate without everyone raising their voices over gun fights (i.e. the Destiny chat).
If you are in the in game chat and we are in Party Chat then we can't hear you and you can't hear us!
[u][b]4. Leadership[/b][/u]
Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them except to call out things that change the game i.e. Relic, teleports, oracles, strong enemies, health, hazards, situation report, countdown (time's vengeance) etc.
[u][b]5. Its not a Strike.[/b][/u]
People often start playing the VoG and within an hour they are saying that they have to leave for work or to sleep or eat or whatever else.
Please don't start playing if you haven't got the time to spare. This isn't going to be done quickly unless [b]YOU[/b] and [b]YOUR WHOLE TEAM[/b] absolutely know what they are doing in the VoG.
Every time someone leaves, that person has to be replaced. The new person has to be 'worked in' and that can take a while. If someone else leaves 30mins later and the pattern continues then you can see how things can drag out. Yes, we have a week to complete the VoG and there are checkpoints but that is besides the point. Think about how you are affecting the team. Don't just join to get that one chest and then leave.
[u][b]6. Weapons, Supers, Builds & Perks[/b][/u]
Use what will benefit you and your team. This isn't the time to be using a weapon just because you like the look or sound of it. This isn't the time to be doing your bounties. This isn't where you level up your character. You are facing the Vex. They use purple shields. You need weapons and builds that maximise Void damage to break these shields. You need Titans who are using Defender. Hunters should be using Invisibility in the Gorgon's Labyrinth and Golden Gun during Boss fights and for Oracles.
Warlocks can go either way. Customise your perks so that they help you and your team to get through. Don't be lazy. Don't be selfish.
[u][b]7. Be patient with people.[/b][/u]
Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the VoG. Everyone on the team should be welcoming to someone who is new to it and take the time to explain things before and as they happen. Don't just kick someone because they got it wrong 5 times in a row. People won't begin to get better until they fully understand what is happening. There are different reasons why the whole team gets wiped. Explain them fully. If things are not going well its a good idea for everyone to regroup in Orbit, ask how everyone is feeling, try to give encouragement and keep morale up. Talk about where things are going well and where things need work. Restock on ammo at the Tower and maybe take a real life break for 5 mins before getting back into it.
[u][b]8. But I was invited...[/b][/u]
Thats fine. If you find yourself in a fireteam of 6 and on route to Venus and you know that you haven't got time or that you are not ready, then please politely let the others know ASAP. That way you can get going to what you really want to do and the rest of the team can start looking for a replacement without anybody having their time wasted. You are helping the team out more by giving notice to leave right at the start. We've all been there. One minute you are doing your own thing then you get an invite to do something that you would rather not do at that time.
[b][u]Summary[/u][/b]
If you are unwilling to follow this advice then you are severely hindering your team's progression within the VoG. Please do the right thing and don't play unless you are willing to do your best to help everyone to get through it.
I am writing this out of love. So that we can all benefit.
Regards,
A [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/511412/0/1/0]Thorny Guardian[/url]
P.S. If you can think of more reasons why people shouldn't raid [i]just yet[/i], please say below but be constructive.
Thanks in advance!
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Edited by Heeman89: 10/23/2014 11:55:31 PMWhile I think you make some valid points I think you should expand point #4 to include Leadership Competency. While it doesn't sound like you personally have this problem (you seem very organized actually) in my experience in the raid so far this has been the major turn off for me in PUG groups. The leader should lead, that's what he does, while under-qualified, under-performing players should take heed to not make themselves a burden, its the leader's job to trim the fat so to speak. The leader should get verbal responses from everyone to make sure the mic is working, the leader should either have people list their gear, or inspect every player, the leader should "assign roles" as much as he can (ie some players like relic, some players like DPS) The leader should have more than just a working knowledge of the raid (I would go so far as to say the leader should know the raid better then anyone else on the team) and I know it might be harsh but if someone isn't in line in the party I think the leader should kick and replace as needed. I've been in far too many raid groups that end in disaster because the leader just didn't lead.
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OR..... You could man up, grow a pair, and help people out. I ran the raid with 3 newbs, that had no idea, and were level 27, 26 and 26. No ammo packs, and no idea what to do. Its fun backpacking people, maybe I just like being a hero lol.
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I also agree with your points. The only addition I would like to make is a point to your #4. As someone who has been using LFG to fill the last two spots of my raid while friends are away on vacation, I'd like to add: 4) If you and your friend are brought to a raid to fill the last 2 spots, please don't use that as the perfect time to hold a personal conversation about THAT party you had the night before or what you're going to drink this weekend. No one else cares and your mouth diarrhea is very annoying to talk over when calling out oracles or praetorians. If I have to mute you, I'd rather kick you and find someone else.
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Sensible and without any hint of elitism. Well written. Thank you
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I give this post 4 Thumbs up (I was a Vandal in a previous life)
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Edited by Gravy Train: 10/24/2014 6:34:18 AM#5 is the reason I've turned down doing the raid. I'd feel guilty starting the raid only to bail on my team to head to work. Once I get experience and know roughly the time it would take it wouldn't be an issue. Maybe this weekend I'll try and find the time and a team.
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All I read was warlocks go both ways. #giggity
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A good list of ideal conditions for a raiding party.
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You forgot another reason to why you shouldnt do the raid.
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Edited by NathanW18: 10/24/2014 1:59:50 PMGreat post. Every single point you have made is correct.
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Some of that would be true for the raid on hard but come on as long as one person Knows what they are doing and everyone falls in line you can beat the raid on normal no problem. It's not that bad. No need to back out and strategize. But I will say if no one knows or if everyone does there own shit it'll be a disaster. By now I would say most people know the basic strategy for how to beat it.
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Edited by Bumsai: 10/24/2014 8:43:23 AMVerry good written! Maybe piont 9… [b][u]9. Preperation for the Raid[/u] [/b]Buy ammo synthesis or check if you have enough of them in your backpack! It is possible, that you run out of primary ammo during a boss fight. But its verry heplfull if you have enough green or purple synthesis for heavy weapons! That weapons can speed up the whole fight! Dont be MEAN to yourself and your whole fireteam. Spend your money for the fight – you earn enough in during the Raid. [b]On Point 6: [/b]Please NO NEW Weapons! Use your weapons that you have fully upgraded. You do less damage with new weapons that you get shortly bevore. Same as with armour. Put yourself in the best gear, its easyer for you, and you life longer! ;) –––––– Thats all. Thank you and bump it up! :)
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ah STFU and get good.
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Are these connected by OR statements or AND statements? :P
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these points are true, while they apply to more inexperienced players.
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I have turned down several Raid invitation's because of a sore throat. I see no sense in a Six Man Raid, if you can not communicate with them. Some good advice there, although I am curious about damage type's. You never mentioned Kinetic damage, how effective is that, as I have never really had problem's with Vex in the Strike's. H'mmm
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Nice post man! :)
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These are all GREAT reasons why there shouldn't be match making for VOG!! Can't see how these are a problem when your playing with people you know are good though?!? Whenever I need 1 or 2 more players we just take the highest level person we can find in the forum and they know what they're doing.
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Remind me to NEVER raid with you.......WIPEEEEE (whole party jumps off templar platform)
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Edited by BFBulletMagnet: 10/24/2014 2:58:58 PMPeople will try to argue you wrong to no end i swear. All I see is you are wrong I did this and I did that. 1. You are below Rank 27. - In general this is correct, yes there are a super stars that can do it at lower ranks, but thats not the norm. 2. No Mic. - yes there are those that have run the vog without a mic but its just more fun talking to others and it does make it easier. 3. Party Chat. - Yes party chat does work better then in game chat I have noticed nat type errors in game and the same person comes to party chat and it works fine. 4. Leadership - Yes everyone can just do what they like and still finish the raid but it does make it easier to be well organized. 5. Its not a Strike. - Yes people leaving is a pain in the ass period. 6. Weapons, Supers, Builds & Perks - Yes you can probably beat the vault with common weapons but again it just makes it harder for everyone. Even if you did get the middle of the group for total kills. Better weapons would of got you to the top and took the load off others even more. 7. Be patient with people. - This one is tough with everyone telling you how wrong you are non stop. Oh wait that's the forum not the raid. 8. But I was invited... - This one is a bit redundant as it was explained in #5 but yes still correct Summary Stop trying point out how wrong people are cause you as a individual were able to do something they said shouldn't be done in general. I think this post was friendly and helpful and I agree if all these things are done you will have a great vog expierence.
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All of this is great advice. I still have yet to beat the raid on Nomal because for two weeks in a row, I've reached Atheon, and the group couldn't coordinate enough to finish. I need to make all my friends read this thread and then whip them into shape this weekend to finish the damn thing.
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bump for justice
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Edited by toasted bacon : 10/24/2014 12:13:11 PMAll those things you said not to do i did with 3 lvl 25s with a whole team of no mic and no communication
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I agree with all of these. My first experience raiding was really horrible. I got an invite from soneone on my friends list saying they were about to try the final part of the raid. (This was only a few days after the raid came out) I thought Atheon was going to be a big bullet sponge like all the strike bosses. We had no idea what to do, I was level 25 or 26 at the time. I would get 1-2 shotted by the trash mobs Atheon sends out. The person 'leading' the raid was just screaming at us all the time that we were terrible and doing it all wrong. I only tried for about 20 minutes but it was futile. My second raid experience was fantastic. An organised raid clan who had gone through dozens of times. I was by then level 28 so I was holding my own. When I messed up they were patient with me but I followed their lead, the skill and coordination of those players really showed me how this game was meant to be played. I got great loot and I raid with the same people and hit the nightfalls with them every week now. So on that subject. I am a level 29 warlock with some of the best PVE guns in the game. I will be running a raid tomorrow at 7pm UK time. I will happily take through new and inexperienced players through the Vault of glass on 360. My gamertag is Raider1987, please feel free to message me directly here or on Xbox live if you want in.
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ahaha it's all true the best part is that goin by your steps 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 on the raid sometimes is like 3,6,1,8,2,5,7,4 sometimes connection breaks like mine, but everytime it's happening i send msg to feel sry about that and my help for next time even when i done whole raid. i could change 1 thing in your raid guide that u actually can start the game even when u r 26(25 is still too low) but u need at least 1 legendary weapon best if its primary and at least 1k def and should try the balance of your stats u shouldn't be only agile or put everything to recovery .
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Also, if you are level 25 and under, don't try to invite 27+ to do the raid/nightfall. I personally won't join unless you are at least 27 (sometimes 26)