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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
2/8/2014 5:24:52 AM
3
[quote]That Day We will fold up heaven[/quote]
Big Crunch
[quote]and the heavens we created with might (power) and
we are expanding it.[/quote]
[quote]We who are steadily expanding it[/quote]
All to do with Big Bang
[quote]And we have made the earth egg shaped.[/quote]
The Earth is ovoid
[quote]It is He who made the sun to light up (the sky)
and the moon that is lit.[/quote]
Self explanatory
idk I may be wrong
English
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Quran is a book of signs and not science. It does have some verses that match with science but it's not a scientific book. Neither is the Bible
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certainly not, science is science, Newton and Einstein are the prophets of physics, the Quran is not a scientific book, it is neither meant to be taken as one nor should it. However the Quran does not generally majorly contradict most current scientific arguments. The Islamic Arabs of the medieval ages wrote scientific books that were used for centuries, and made enormous breakthroughs in medicine, astronomy, and other fields, because they thought that science was discovering the works of God. I don't see why you have to only choose between Science and Religion, if you feel that you must than you unfortunately are naive and ignorant. Alas, blindly believing ancient books is naive and ignorant as well, you must be wise enough to determine truths. Peace and unity y'all, there doesn't have to be any sort of squabbling anywhere.
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Newton studied the Bible more than math & science tho.
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Interesting. When did they switch from scientific studies to killing people for Allah?
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People can believe in both as I do, anyone who says you can only choose one is an idiot. The Quran is more than just a book with some science in it, it is truly a unique book, it's literary form is a miracle and is unmatched.
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I agree, however many people do think that you can only beleive in one. Yes, to me, a Muslim it is, however if others do not accept it as then it is still pointless fighting or argueing
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Yeah, oh well. Do you know how to read the Quran in Arabic?
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Unfortunately not, I've read it in English but to get the full meaning out of it you have to read it in Arabic. First I have to actually learn Arabic though, and that will probably take some time
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You'll get it. I read the whole book in Arabic and have memorized about 41 chapters so far in Arabic. Once you learn a little bit of Arabic you'll be able to easily memorize the smaller chapters.
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Edited by dr0cx: 2/8/2014 6:04:35 AMThe idea that the Koran explains science is confirmation bias, but I'll respond anyway. Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a book folded up Lifted from previously existing biblical passage. Expansion of the universe is accelerating, crunch is unlikely anyway. On the expanding statements, this is a very vague claim and it takes a leap of logic to conclude that it must reference the big bang. I would ask if every reference to the heavens in the entirety of the book consistently means outer space. Plato and Archimedes estimated the circumference of the earth quite accurately around 400 BCE and 250 BCE respectfully. The shape of earth was old news by the time the Koran was written. Referencing that there is a sun and a moon in our sky is hardly impressive. Ancient Greeks and ancient Egyptians had gods responsible for these celestial bodies. Here's some more "science", where clearly the sun orbits the earth and rests in mud for the night. An illiterate most certainly would come up with that while claiming divinely inspired knowledge that already exists. Qur’an 18:83-86—And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people.
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Book of revelation is about the future. it's describing the end of times, there are many chapters in the Quran that describe what will happen at the end of time. These are not scientific because science can't prove it, because duhhhh it hasn't happened yet.
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Edited by Ninjabird00: 2/10/2014 2:19:17 AMif you read the story of Dhul Qarnayn carefully two things are obvious is that he is powerful and is traveling a lot. God gave him the authority to treat people however he wanted. There are two mentions of the sun. In verse 86 the word maghrib is used which means the sun is setting. Also it says wajadaha which means he watched or it appeared to him. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." You only quoted part of the verse. After he reached the place where he watched the sun set he was allowed to either punish or treat them good. In the next verse he says that if they are bad and transgressors we will punish them and if they are good they'll be treated with a good reward. Then he went on his way again 18:90 - Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. The word is matla3 al shamsi which is the sun is rising. First it was setting, now it's rising so he was probably walking for at least a day. Does this mean that the sun was actually rising above the people? It's called perspective. It's telling you how it appeared to him, please use your mind a little.
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This still doesn't demonstrate any scientific validity of the Koran.
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I just wanted to correct your poor interpretation of the verse. There is some science in the Quran but no it's not a book about science, and neither is the Bible.
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Incorrect interpretation. Interpretation sounds suspiciously like the context that apologists love to use in order to make the books mean anything they want. I'm unconcerned with your interpretation. My concern is with the willful ignorance and anti-intellectualism that allows people to delude themselves into believing these works of fiction are real.
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And you're making it mean what you want and I'm telling you that you're completely wrong. If you think that it's a work of fiction then why are you getting so worked up over it. It's like arguing over Harry Potter.
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Reading words for what they plainly mean without applying mental jumping jacks isn't making it mean what I want it to mean. I also find it quite telling when someone points out the holes in religion that the believers suddenly claim that the free thinkers are getting "worked up".
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You can criticize religion all you want but the fact is that there is no guarantee who is right or wrong. I guess we'll find out once we die.
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Religion criticizes itself. If just one person wakes up to realize this based on freethinkers refusing to remain silent, than what is done is good. I want people to learn, to think for themselves. Religion is anathema to this.
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I was born Catholic, changed to Islam, so yes, I am thinking for myself. I do not narrow my vision to one thing, as I read legitimate books (not online articles) on Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, Judaism, of course Science and technology, and many philosophical and political doctrines. Based the information I learn, i create my own conclusions. So, in that case, I think I am doing as you would like :D
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Well it just so happens that the Quran actually encourages deep thinking, it tells to reflect on the world around us. It doesn't just tell us to accept but tells us to ponder first. I didn't decide that I wanted to become a Muslim in one day, after a while I decided it was right for me. If being atheist is right for you then more power to you.
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That'd be true if there was a large and dedicated group of people who thought Harry Potter was real.
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I doubt that will happen.
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dude thats so vague
