Hunters are balanced now. Quit bitching

I agree gunslinger is so bad to use now I used to go overkill with trip mines now people survive even when I throwen right at the ground in front of them it is stupid the other bombs kill why can't the trip mine?

Stop the stupidity, hunters STILL dominate crucible I rarely ever come up agains another warlock (let alone one who uses Sunsinger) hunters are still op and weren't even touched while the warlock completely lost a whole subclass

[quote]I'm no professional statistician[/quote] Sure you're not ;), I call bullshit. But seriously from what we have been presented by Bungie on our end, this is an example of Bungie not quite taking into account subclass dynamics ie. 'roles', map sizes + complexity and player density within the maps.

Dude I respect your opinion but what's done is done. More than like Bungie will never revert the changes no matter the argument. All classes have been through this now, all the way back in December 2015 to this June. It feels like the Hunters thought they would be exempt but Bungie kept informing that "all" classes would go through a balance update. Do the changes suck, of course no one likes to be nerfed, but at least you got tweaks and buffs thrown in. The only reason sunbreaker got a super buff, 1.3% faster projectile and 10%, was probably to try to get rid of the early detonation bug they've been suffering from. And to be fair if we're talking about graphs NO one ever argued against the graph when sunbreakers were getting their nerf. Everyone agreed, mind you there was an imbalance there, to nerf it end of story and move on. Sadly that now applies to the hunters now. You gotta just shrug it off and move on and enjoy the game. P.S. Gonna make a new hunter soon because Gunslinger still looks sweet as hell >: )

The goal is to get an equal number of Hunters, Titans and Warlocks in Trials. Simple....

Let's clear the air here over this and just put it plain and simple. The playstyle of each character choice we make caters to the strengths of us as individual players. This isn't a skill based argument but simply a balancing and to take away anything inherently given to the hunters or any class for that matter with the simple metric that is skill based (k/d) is wrong. Bungie needs to take a deeper look into the metrics of each character before making nerf or buff decisions. This one felt very forced and in response to the uproar over the nerf of the OP Warlocks of the world. Don't go into this conversation making it "i'm more skilled than you" but rather make it how each character is a choice we've made to cater to our preferential play styles

I agree completely. The graph only showed k/d ratios not ability kills. Also they silently nerfed flux grenades to uselessness for no reason.

I agree. Basically the metric of k/d is wrong and if anyone knows stats it's that you can skew the same stats a million different ways. So basically the only nerfing or buffing should be based on a more detailed approach. Just because a hunter has more attributes of a "typical" fps character doesn't mean it doesn't take an immense amount of talent/skill to use the tools given to counteract, what I would consider to be, easier characters to play. What I mean to say is that Warlocks and Titans are inherently easier characters to assimilate into from an fps standpoint. Let's breakdown some of the tools each character has at their disposal, which Bungie has meticulously chosen to be the standard for each of those characters (grenades, melee and super) I won't be listing all for each category. Warlocks grenades are by far the most powerful in my opinion. Axion bolt can not only track enemies for a long period of time, but it can split into 2 and track. Now the warlock gets hit markers so those enemies hiding around corners are basically sitting ducks, and those who are getting traced are essentially abandoning their post and running to avoid the powerful hit and subsequent shots from the warlock. No other grenade boasts this type of ability and it's way too powerful. Also a close second is the firebolt which is almost the same only you get hit too quick if you're within striking distance and it can also split into multiple targets. Scatter grenades are just as bad and can kill with just one grenade and it doesn't have to stick because it also TRACKS ENEMIES. Titans have the lightning and magnetic grenades. Lightning lasts a long time and also has an absurd range. how can anyone work around this ? They can't and thus the heavily charging titan with a shoulder charge can easily crush any hunter who is the victim of the grenade. Also Magnetic grenades explode twice and are allowed to stick to enemies. Hunters just had their only sticking grenade removed. Hunters have tripmine, skip and arcbolt. None of which at this stage in the game can do anything more than barely harm the enemy targeted. Arcbolt is as close to firebolt but definitely not as powerful because the subclass it's attached to doesn't have self resurrect or a flame shield upon melee. the tripmine has just received a huge nerf not allowing it to stick to enemies and less damage. and skip grenade again does decent damage but also attached to a subclass that doesn't have the same perks as the opponents class of the same style grenade. Now moving to melees Warlocks again take the cake. If you're a sunsinger you get an instant 100% overshield upon impact, plus you have a firebolt grenade and instant Resurrection so even if you lose the 1v1 you can come back and kill that enemy easily because they are most likely at 1% health. Also energy drain is just over powered. Kills enemy health and shortens cool down of grenade. a deadly combo. Scorch burns and now burns plus adds the recipient susceptible to 5% outside damage during burn. basically rendering that player dead Titans have the shoulder charge which apparently just kills in one shot against 100% health. and then they can hit you with any of their powerful melees: disintegrate, storm fist, and sunstrike. They are a freighttrain up close and no hunter can even think of out doing a 1v1 from close range with this enemy. So hunters keep distance Hunters have a knife, smoke and blink strike. Blink strike essentially just gives you greater lunge ability but brings you closer to a more powerful melee opponent. More than likely you're dead if you don't kill the enemy with the strike. Smoke either makes you invisible or barely stops charging titans or blinking warlocks. and knife is the only solace and counter that a hunter has and Bungie has nerfed the damage by 10% making it nearly useless to escape more powerful opponent melees. No replenishes, no overshields, no drains, and no area of effect damage. Hunters again are inherently at a disadvantage. Supers Again warlocks are crushing. The nova bomb has a helmet that allows instant replenish of the super bar upon killing enemies which it does with ease. The nova bomb has crazy range and AOE damage AND FURTHERMORE you can't begin to kill a warlock upon activation unless that warlock is at 1% because activating the super makes the warlock unstoppable and unaffected by bullets. Also they can resurrect with sunsingers and are the most powerful Sith when they are stormcallers. The stormcaller super is the most powerful. They are floating lightning that lasts forever and easily kill opponents while taking minimal damage. Titans can't be killed and have helmets to further assist taking 0 damage when activating fist of havok. the range as well is devastating because you can be airborne and the ground pound fist takes out airborne enemies. The bubble shield has perks and instant defense against anything and can barely be taking down by gun fire unless it's rocket based or a TWO, YES TWO, GOLDEN GUN SHOTS. Insane. And the hammer of thor lasts way too long and has now gotten more range and power which is unnecessary hunters? oh they get golden gun which doesn't give them more defense, in fact you're a beam of light and will take all the fire from enemies and die quickly, plus the burn rate to 0 on the golden has been increased. you activate it takes a split second so everyone knows what's coming and then you're the human torch running around drawing fire. And the auto aim on the titan hammer super is so heavy and the hunters is so precise it makes it barely a super. The bladedancer has decent power because you're harder to kill with jagged movements but I've taken out more bladedancers than any other arc based super upon activation. And for reasons I've stated before a hunter up close is basically a dead hunter if you don't kill the opponent with the bladedancer hit. And the nightstalker is worthless in my opinion because it's a decent damage and holds enemies but it doesn't always kill all enemies in the area you have to still shoot the trapped ones and they can shoot you back. No other super allows enemies to be trapped and still fire back at the opponent. Plus it's attached a far inferior subclass. I could go on and I've probably rambled enough but seriously penalizing the perks and builds of hunters because those players who choose to play as hunters have a greater k/d makes no sense. The play style of a hunter is vastly different than those of warlocks and titans as per the reasons I've pointed out above. Hunters have to steer clear of close encounters. They can't charge into battle. That's why they die less. They stay far away and probably get easier kills because they aren't able to charge into battle so their usage of guns is more precise. giving them more kills and assisting their up close and personal teammates of titans warlocks. If I see a 1v1 melee battle i'm throwing fire from a distant at to help my teammate; probably taking kills in the process but those kills were easier to get because I'm not taking the up close damage. I'm simply peppering fire. I want to know how many hunters use pulse rifles, scout rifles and hand cannons and snipers. I also want to know how many warlocks and titans use shotguns and autorifles. That should be your metric bungie NOT K/D. It's absurd that this nerf is taking place. I hope it's immediately reversed.

You won't see an astounding variation in [b][u][i]AVERAGE[/i][/u][/b] performance, because it's across a huge board. Besides, it's not like they'd make 1 class overpowered to the point of raising a shitters KD ratio to 1.5 (just an example). #statistics

Save your breath with Bungie, there is no rhyme or reason for their actions. The graph was thrown up for those with minimal math skills to go: "see, its a higher line so it must be so"! Those os us, and you, know math and recognize the BS...

Playing my Hunter in IB all the time, and it is still great. Get over it already. And understand already that Bungie gives a flying crap about community opinions. Why? Because they can. Destiny sells anyway.

I feel you, dat butter knife tho...😶

Simple answer to everyone's whining. TAKE SUPERS OUT OF CRUCIBLE. Once that's done no more issues of nerfing this power and that power. Everyone is equal. Problem solved.

I have been pointing out every point you made since they released the stupid graph. Glad I'm not the only one who can think critically. What people don't get is that Hunters present a tradeoff. Firepower for Armor. The Hunter's have lighter armor even when maxed, than any other class in the game. Therefore, the hunter needs superior firepower and mobility to survive. We still have the superior mobility, but now you've weakened our firepower greatly (other than the super buff, which comes into play at most, every couple of minutes). We can't exactly run and hope our enemies chase us till they die of exhaustion. Tripmine and Throwing Knife were never OP. They just needed to find some stupid statistical excuse to nerf hunters. And I refuse to play this game until they do a 180 on this and a 180 on their choice to continue with rotating meta's.

The metric for this change was a plot of K/D. Which assumes that all the Hunters have the same skills as all other class players. I know players who play Hunter because the like its style and they are highly skilled players. The numbers assume that the class perks are responsible for higher K/D and does not consider that a higher number of very skilled players prefer the Hunter class.

It was based on 6 v 6 which usually comes down to who gets the heavy ammo KDR wise. I also disagree with bungie nerfing the throwing knife initial damage. It is a high risk high reward choice to use a throwing knife it and it requires a fair amount of skill. What Bungie did is change the initial damage instead of the burn damage on throwing knife which by the way was causing the problem. Now the throwing knife is high risk no reward. P.S. Incendiary grenades should not have been nerfed so heavily. It takes careful aim and placement to get that 170 damage that causes a KO, anything else is not a KO. Now, even when i get that perfectly placed incendiary grenade right at their feet from 50 meters away it NEVER KILLS.

You think they'll read this? Lol