i'm guessing the 1 damage will start mattering more if you go outside of intended range which is what i'm assuming it was intended for sonce the the damage will drop from 11 > 10 instead of 12 > 11 which makes mid range killing slower.

Then it didn't need nerfed huh?

Doctrine will be good because it's easy to keep on the head versus any other gun type. The only other auto rifle I've seen was a red spectre with perks the same a counter balance doctrine. The thing could drive nails so to speak.

It's a magazine not a clip. Huge difference

I used it in crucible yesterday. It still did great especially if you're landing your headshots.

Now add in the counterbalance nerf. That will make some of those bullets not hit their intended target (or harder to stay on target) which will also increase TTK. With the damage nerf and counterbalance nerf, it's noticeable. I don't really care if it was or wasn't nerfed. I have no say. I just play the game. This is just my two cents. I noticed a difference and I don't think it was placebo. Seemed to work fine on targets already damaged, but then again, having a teammate take out their shield for ya, it wouldn't matter what you were using.

Anyone?

Do people actually drool over basic arithmetic?! Thanks for presenting it, but I'd hope that people could do their own homework.

Congrats you're the first logical hunter I've met

Nice job. If only more posts were like this one with actual facts to back up an argument. All anyone ever does is cry or say "Git Gud"

I've edited this thread to summarize the BS that has derailed the original post. Say what you will....Yes. I spent some time crafting this, because I believe it's fundamentally important to address the ignorance, disrespect, and pervasive entitlement...seriously...the whining and entitlement on these forums are beyond unbelievable....I really start to grow concerned with the socialist leaning "participation trophy" culture that is infesting and transforming our youth and adults. So, I'll start with the illusion called "Balance" and the overwhelming need for it expressed by pervasive complaints. "Balance" in complex tactical sims is pure fiction. "Balance in the real world is either an illusion or a farce. Nothing is "fair" on a battlefield...hell nothing is ever "fair" in life. Move past it. Find solutions, tactics, strategies that counter or innovate (that is what the game is designed to "train"). There is always a strategic or tactical advantage based on the conditions of the combat theater and combatants. The challenge is overcoming and dealing with what "appears" to be "unfair" and becoming victorious despite the perception of advantage or disadvantage. "Stop the whining and excuses and FIND A WAY TO WIN soldier!" (Some or many of you will here this in the future....I guarantee it) What I find most ironic is that people don't realize that the gov has a significant vested interest and investment in combat sim / shooter games. It is a forefront priority training tool. The armed forces contract and provide funding to each of the major gaming labels to increase production of these style of games as a pre-military training tool and recruiting tool (hence the significant rise in these games over the last decade as worldwide conflict and US and UK intervention increases). Even the NSA,CIA, and FBI have investments in the collection of Intel (some of which were exposed to the public recently). Military research has shown that developing children's and adolescent's brains become permanently wired for the core abilities/attributes being trained by these games as a foundation for current and future combat skills (when these games are introduced into their development). Ultimately, the reasons you are seeing so many complex factors being incorporated into weapon modifiers, skills, attributes, fire team tactics and most importantly the "long term expansions" of a single game is to keep that "gamer" (i.e. "trainee") invested and continuing in their combat training development. One major advantage to all this is the fact that it trains these attributes for years starting with brain and nervous system development focused on natural combat attributes becoming innate and ultimately influencing a part of who they are or will be as an adult...because trying to program enhancements in these "wired" behaviors into an adult is extremely difficult, costly, if not impossible for some attributes (reaction speeds, peripheral awareness, agility, hand snd eye coordination, digestion/analysis of multiple technical streams of combat related data in making split second tactical decisions). These "expansion based ten year games" coupled with mega data collection analysis of "game play" are ideal for the shifting these sims towards continual influence toward certain desired tactical behaviors through "nerfs" "rewards" or other "patch changes" that appear on the surface as "unnecessary" to "a game" however, like ALL military training this ensures that appropriate focus on certain desired attributes, skills, and the re-programming of the perception of what is "normal" (like training and instilling "adaptability" throug frequent environmental changes) ensure that the desired behavioral and skill development are ongoing and progressive. Moreover, privileged entitled children in third world countries (where the battlefield is frequently found) who have Xboxs and PlayStations are far and few. Yes...the tracking grenades and tracking rifle projectiles (hidden hand) are in real development, trip mines, cloaking tech, thermite grenades, enhanced body armor and HUD displays, fusion like projectiles, rail guns, etc....ALL ARE REAL or in development. But it's "just a game" right? Oh the irony...the anti-military dissenters (like the ones on this thread and other threads), being trained for combat with growing realistic combat sims incorporating and requiring "fire team" tactical skills when the need arises for them to serve their country, and they think it's "just a game". My advice to you is grow up and start showing the proper respect to those who have "served" and "protect" you. Think again when you choose to whine about "balance" or "unfairness". Because the day is coming (what they don't understand) when all the whining and entitlement will be forcibly replaced with "accountability" and "sheer will to win", no matter how "unfair" something appears or is, when they actually are called upon and indoctrinated to "serve their country" to protect the freedoms of both this nation (which they take for granted) or the multiple other nation's peoples in order to perpetuate the culture of individual freedom providing an umbrella of protection that only selfless professions provide by choosing to die and kill for the belief of freedom being an inalienable human right. It's so easy for some to ignorantly criticize and make derogatory comments to those who "serve their country" in a world where they are so protected and so far removed from the overwhelming realities of oppression, human slavery, genocide, starvation, -blam!-, and theft that surround them outside their bubble. It's irritating to say the least to see people on these forums, from the comfort of an arm chair make the comments they make while enjoying the benefits of the umbrella of protection we provide them as selfless committed citizens. And as the globe continues to fall into civil strife, the day is not so far off from when they will be called to defend those freedoms themselves and our interests abroad necessary to maintain those freedoms. So....for now if it makes them feel better... Tell yourself ..."It's just a game" and that complex fire team combat tactical sims "should be fair"..... If you don't "believe" me or my experience" in serving...your right as a "free" citizen (unfortunately many of the posts below exhibit substantial ignorance) here is a small sample of a brief article that only scratches the surface. https://takefiveblog.org/2012/10/09/more-than-a-game-the-defense-department-and-the-first-person-shooter/ http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-10-03-us-military-can-learn-from-game-marketing-says-ex-call-of-duty-director (Pay attention to the "brain washing quote") http://www.versiondaily.com/how-the-u-s-uses-video-games-for-military-training/ http://web.science.mq.edu.au/~isvr/Documents/pdf%20files/game-master/GameReport_Bonk_final.pdf And for all you cheeky Brits and Euros out there... You haven't been left out... http://archive.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=1150 [b]NATO Group Holds Video-Gaming Session[/b] "[b]We have some agreements with game companies,[/b]” Wisher said. “[b]We provide subject matter experts because it will be closer to what we need for training,[/b] and the game will look more real.” Tim Tate, director of ADL’s job performance technology center, said young people are increasingly using technology to learn, and [b]DoD aims to expand its efforts in this area[/b]. “Younger people are very enthused about games,” Tate said. “We wanted to make this part of military training.” U.S. enemies will always come up with surprise tactics, but [b]the ultimate goal of using the games is to save lives by preparing troops for what they might face and improving their lethality,[/b] Tate said.

I love math. Good post. Maybe these nerfs werent so bad?

I ve been making this argument but everyone is crying thar it is destroyed. It's really funny.

Tested my counterbalance DoP out after the patch took effect, still works fine the damage for a crit shot is now 14 instead of 15. I mowed some ppl down with it no problem.

Went and tested my old Doctrine. This might have more effect on a different roll of the weapon I suppose, but if it has Counterbalance (even considering the 'nerf' to it) I notice it, but.. it doesn't really matter in any significant way. The gun still disintegrates people faster and at further range than pretty much anything else available, including Exotics. I had to put marginally more effort into it to get a kill. [i]Marginally.[/i]

Is the nerf 6% per round, or 6% to DPS? Both are valid, but both have different measures of damage. BUNGIE never made that clear in the update..

6% was way too much considering the TTK from most high stability or high impact pulse rifles was compatible. Bungie has just brought back initial taken king style pulse rifle meta

Doctrine is still op, the only way to outgun a doctrine is with not missing a single shot and getting precision shots. Since doctrine ttk doesn't really change wether you get precision or body makes it op. Also missing a shot with any other type of gun hand cannon, pulse, scout rifle has a huge penalty on your ttk, however doctrine doesn't have such penalties for missing a shot making it more op and the worse thing about it is the "ping" I lose so many gun fights even when I get the first shot off becuz i constantly miss shots from my screen shaking uncontrollably making it the most op gun ever

Here is your problem. You know how much HP we have in crucible, and know nothing else. You didn't know the HP on knights, or how much damage per bullet the gun gives out pre-nerf, or post-nerf. So you can't really give out the math. I am not saying the sentiment of what you are saying is false. One thing I will say is this. I don't trust Bungie with these weapon patches. Nerfs not being as advertised. Advertised slight nerfs being big nerfs. Advertised buffs not being there, or in the case of fusion rifles 2 patches ago, the buff turned into a nerf. This update they advertise a slight nerf to throwing knives because apparently we were all frustrated about them, never saw a single post calling for a throwing knife nerf on here or elsewhere, but apparently somewhere in the world was at least one salty guardian upset over a throwing knife. Yet now a hunter can't even use their regular melee attack, and one hit a lowly thrall, or a single dreg. So that was nerfed as well. In general in PVE we are weaker now, and the game is less fun. So your assessment could be spot on, on the other hand maybe not. Either way I feel like we have been cheated.

Finally someone who uses a bit of math and a little thing called Logic before during and after posting

Thankyou sir