This is a follow up to my last topic [url=https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/197432601/0/0/1]Why Oryx doesn't Pancake us (Lore Wise)[/url] I finished mentioning that there was other Lore hidden in the mechanics of the fight, so this time I'm going to tackle the Light-Eater Ogres, Knights & Vessel of Oryx, and how they fit into the story of Destiny Also a short disclaimer before I start, this theory is slightly more speculative than the previous one, with fewer sources, however I do feel it still bears merit to discuss, so let's get to it. So to start of, let's look at the only direct mention of the Light-Eaters in the Grimoire [quote]How did you take (or rather, un-Take) the Blighted Light that Oryx gathered to offer in sacrifice to Akka, and ignite it so that it burned and burned the Darkness?[/quote] -Presumably Toland: Grimoire Card Kings' Fall This in itself raises questions, as the Books of Sorrow clearly state that Oryx killed Akka to become the Taken King and later turned its corpse into the Dreadnaught. [quote]Auryx the First Navigator set upon his god with his sword and his words, and cut Akka to pieces, and took from those pieces the secret of calling upon the Deep. He wrote this secret on a set of tablets, which he called the Tablets of Ruin. And he wore them about his waist.[/quote] - Book of Sorrows Verse 3:8 [quote]To make his ship, Oryx scrimshawed one piece of Akka, who was dead but far from gone. He stole the Hammer of Xivu Arath and the Scalpel of Savathûn and he armored his ship in baneful armor.[/quote] -Book of Sorrows Verse 4:11 Why is Oryx preparing a Sacrifice to a dead-god? one that he defeated no less? At this time my best explanation is that when Akka was killed, his Larvae inherited his Title, and as Oryx's Worm is a larvae of Akka, his own Worm has become Akka [quote]“But you gave us your larvae, the worm,” said Auryx, “and that is why the worm devours us now: because it was given, not taken.[/quote] Auryx/Oryx to Akka- Book of Sorrows Verse 3:8 So when Toland speaks of Oryx sacrificing to Akka, he is speaking of Oryx's own worm, now onto the main points. This isn't the first time that the Hive have been mentioned sacrificing Ogres [quote]"Conjured with but one purpose... to die." -Toland, the Shattered The Forsaken are conjured and birthed through ritual, meant to serve as worship to gods of a higher plane of misery. To perform a ritual of sacrifice is to tempt a god's hunger. What then, if a being of the Light were to taint such a ritual? Would the Hive be punished? Would their gods grow angry? [/quote] - Grimoire Card: The Forsaken The description of the forsaken (whom we fought back in The Dark Below) bears a striking similarity to the Light-Eater Ogres, created for sacrifice, rituals tainted by light, and the hive are most certainly punished as a result. However this seems to contradict my previous topic's conclusion, if Oryx already has a sacrifice prepared to satisfy his Worm, (emergency rations if you will) why doesn't he kill us quickly? Well going back to the Forsaken, they had to be killed in a specific way, by a specific Hive [quote]Not all can be hallowed, fewer still gods, but all can do their part to smite the Light. The Hated, though, holds a unique place among the Hive. It is a singular position. Only ever one. And the emerald marrow on its blade is not from combat, but the ritualistic execution of those the Wizards have deemed Forsaken.[/quote] -Grimoire Card: Urzok the Hated Now this could refer to a component of the Hive's Tithe where any individual Hive that is hoarding is punished by death, however the specific mention of the Forsaken & they are both encountered in the same Quest line seems to be proof enough that it is the sole duty of the Hated to perform these Rituals, and as no such Hated participates in the final battle with Oryx it appears that the Guardians have again sabotaged the fight in our favor before it has began. This could have been when we killed Urzok as it does mention there is only one, but it seems unlikely that the Hive wouldn't have replaced such an important figure in the time between the Dark Below and the Taken King. I believe that there was another Knight that we killed who Oryx intended to kill the Light-Eaters, that being Ecthar, Sword of Oryx (The Knight who appears alongside Oryx in the story Cut-scenes and is killed as part of the Sword Quest line) Unfortunately there is [strangely] no mention of him in the Grimoire so from here on it's regretfully down to guesswork and assumptions. Echtar like Urzok is a Sword-Wielding Knight, in possession of an incredible shield, difficult for a guardian to locate and have no apparent equal in the Hive's rankings. Furthermore Echtar bears similar visual design traits to the Light-Eater Knights & Vessel (Sidenote: a design mimicked by the Crota's End Titan gear named after Oryx's Sword Willbreaker) and they are the only Hive we see in proximity to Oryx, everything else is Taken. As such I believe that Oryx intended Echtar to fight alongside him in Kingsfall, Killing the Ogres whose blighted Light would be collected by the Vessel of Oryx & The Light-Eater Knights to pay tribute to Oryx's worm, Akka. Seeing as we killed him before-hand Oryx summoned them anyway, either out of cunning or desperation, hoping that we would be forced to kill them anyway and help him complete the Ritual, not knowing that we could ignite the blighted light in such a spectacular way. Now onto the final point, the Brand Claimer relic, it bears special interest as it is the only Raid Relic not to have it's own Grimoire Card so again we must speculate as to it's existence. Why would Oryx have such a thing in his chambers whose sole purpose is to strip away his defenses? The answer is that it is not there by his design, but by Toland's. We know that Toland didn't die as we believed alongside Eris's fireteam but instead become an etheal form haunting the Hive's various Throne Worlds. [quote]I, too, am detached from my source. The charming Ir Yût made her introductions, and I was very pleased to meet her. We had a conversation, a little tête-à-Yût, a couple old wizards exchanging definitions. I defined myself a friend. She defined for me the quiddity of death, and she sang the song of that fearful autonomy. Revelation, my friends, it does go down hard. The definition killed me. The killing redefined me. This is the shape and the point of the tooth: nothing has ever lived that will not die. Now I fly between green-black suns in the labyrinth beyond Crota’s god-star. This is the Overworld, the Sea of Screams, where the throne-universes of the great Hive fester in eternal majesty. I move among them. I map the shapes and connections of this world.[/quote] -Toland: Ghost Fragment: The Hellmouth There's also a widely held theory that those specs of light you see thought The Taken King are Toland watching/guiding you from beyond the veil. I myself am slightly skeptical as the Ghost says in the story [quote]"Same thing we saw right before Phobos fell apart. Might be some kind of Probe" "Well, now we know we have his attention. Hi, Oryx"[/quote] -Ghost mission dialogue Dreadnought/Regicide respectfully That being said the Ghost is guessing rather than stating as a fact, and these things are found in the Threshold (the final room in the Raid) where Oryx doesn't need probes so they could well be Toland's work. Either way it seems very likely that the Brand Claimer Relic is Toland's, just like Kabr & the Aegis, Toland crafted it to help us overcome the final step by removing Hive Brands to survive the Light detonations, that can only be accessed after being Torn though dimensions to access the same plane of Existence that Toland resides in. That concludes my thoughts on how the Raid Mechanics of the Oryx fight do tie into Destiny's lore, as always feedback, criticism and questions are very welcome.