Here's the thing: "if used correctly" I would gladst make firebolt a oneshot kill! If you would land it directly on your opponent, but right now it takes zero skill to throw one

Takes 0 skill to shoulder charge or to shade step or turn invisible or track with a sniper? Are you stupid?

He isn't. He is talking balance. There is no other grenade in the game that can be checked around a corner and bring you down to a sliver of health if you are anywhere in its radius. All while taking you out of the game for 14 seconds plus regen time. That is overpowered. I agree it can be dodged, but the point is it is way more effective than other grenades. Grenades need to be balanced.

And last thing that's what makes a warlock self res is very simply to kill in trials and we don't have much else to use on that class besides the grenade or res and our Melee but that's your own fault if you are that close and you could simply counter with a shotty. Where as a hunter has wombo tether which stops all supers, shade step, can track, and can go invis. -blam!- I don't want to hear shit about a nade when you literally can go invisible. It's all balanced in its own ways and I'm not bitching on hunters I find all classes very fair but warlocks are just blown out of proportion all the time bc of bad players

I am a Titan, so stop assuming I am a hunter. I run defender most often, so stop assuming I use things like the wombo combo. I think it's a little OP. I'm not against your self res, I'm not complaining about your one hit kill melee. I'm complaining that the firebolts can do maximum damage despite the range. At point blank, I think it should. The farther from it you are, the less it should do. If you want the damage to be uniform no matter the distance, it should be less. Either would be fine.

I disagree 100 percent your nade hits harder in purely one hit running lightning grenade. Your shoulder charge it's extremely difficult to stop once you are in the motion it's usually always a trade. Running a defender as a Titan in trials pretty much never happens. I'd say 80 percent of the time it's striker, and don't get me started on the in air shade step essentially: as I have stated before I find all classes even. But as I have said we have one good perk and that's a fire bolt and guess what if you are alone you should be burning and rushed and die. If you are with your team you simply back up and he fills in for you and you heal and my nade is gone.. It's tactics they are extremely easy evade.

One, I almost never run striker. Two, lightning grenades are easily avoidable on the second hit, but I do think they should take longer in between pulses. As for shoulder charge, anyone who lets anyone that close deserves it, and just because you can't flame shield to be tougher at meleeing than the melee class doesn't make it broken.

Lol I'm not even complaining you notice how every class between sunsinger nights talker and now striker you have found things you dislike.. That's the difference... I think they are all even and if I had the choice to change anything I swear I literally wouldn't.. It's all fair in my eyes and it's all IN HOW YOU USE YOUR CHARACTER OFFENSIVELY AND DEFENSIVELY!

The only issue I have with a class is when there is something that gives maximum output for minimum effort. Everything I have mentioned so far except the firebolts I am fine with. You know why? It is because it takes literally no skill to drop someone to zero health. I use it on my own warlock. It is the easiest grenade in the game. The wombo combo is harder, and that is saying something.

I'm done with this. Think what you want but as I've said a million times every class has a perk that helps that class. I mean seriously if I miss with my nade.. U realize a hunter still has tracking, still has shade step and Titans still have shoulder charge and essentially a shade step.. Where is that again on a warlock? O wait we don't have any of that.

Right good call I forgot that shoulder charge takes anymore skill then a fire bolt, I forgot going invisible with a sniper or shotty takes anymore skill, I forgot hitting O O to shade step behind a wall or in general takes anymore skill.. Good point

Your sarcasm is 10/10. And actually all of these things do take skill. Not because they are hard button combos, but because they take manipulation of your environment. They are a combination of map knowledge, maneuverability, and player prediction to get to just the right place to secure the kill. A firebolt, on the other hand, can be easily placed anywhere without needing to know how your opponent will react, because there is no consequence if the opponent dodges. If an opponent dodges your shoulder charge or see you coming too soon, you are dead. If you shadestep in the wrong circumstance, you are dead. If you whif your grenade, you just whif your grenade. You threw it around the corner, so it's not like you're being shot, but your grenade is so powerful that the whole room had to panic because if it even ticked them, they will be one shot from death. Even a lightning grenade only does 122 damage if you avoid the second pulse, and most do.

Lol 14 seconds it's 5-7 to seven tops.. Ever heard of a wombo? And still lol that's all a warlock would have and they use it if they rush. That's your own fault if you literally are that bad to counter it. As I've said before it's always the bad pvp players who cry. You don't see top level streamers crying over it and the majority don't eve run warlocks. They run hunter. So if it really was soooooo OP then many more would use it?

One, I know of the wombo, it's a little too powerful, but only by a tiny bit, and I see top tier players saying it's overpowered all the time. I'm not saying nerf it into the ground, I'm saying make it take skill. Have the damage be based on proximity to the grenade. Just because you can counter something doesn't make it fine. I could counter thorn year one easily, but that didn't make sitting in a corner every time I got tagged fun, because it slows down gameplay, and no matter how long the burn is, the point remains it forces you out of the fight and allows you to be an easy kill even if you are almost out of its radius. The easier a grenade is to hit you, the less it should do. For example, incendiary grenades are fine, because they require perfect placement for a one hit kill and the farther you are from it, the less it does.

U take away our grenade use then that class is basically useless. That's bs look at what a hunter has on simply night stalker. Your argument is invalid bc your basing it on that one simple nade. That's what makes that class. A nights talker hunter is so geared with versatility it's not even funny. So quick, wombo, tether, shade step, tracking, I mean you seriously going to sit here and tell me that our one nade is more op then all of that. That's pathetic

I never said your made was more OP. I think Nightstalkers needs way more rebalancing, but in terms of ease of use, the firebolts is too easy. All of the Nightstalkers skills require skill to use. The firebolts is cheap. That being said, the Nightstalkers has too many good abilities for it to be fair, even if they do take certain levels of skill, and I agree they need to be looked at. As for firebolts being removed ruining the class, that is not what I'm calling for, though your other grenades are great. I'm calling for either mitigated burn based on proximity to the detonation, with point blank leaving a sliver of health and maximum range leaving half a health bar or uniform damage that is somewhere in the middle, so that one shot from an auto rifle doesn't finish you, or burn not lasting as long but doing the damage it does now so that recovery happens quicker.

And again. As I have said. You run your striker Titan you can evade no problem you run shade step you shade step right out of it and I'm out of a nade... It's all tactics. As I have said it's our one tool to use to push and it works great. But so does a invisible blinking hunter with a shotty to the face.. This can be countered anyway you want to look at it. If it's far away where you get hit then guess what hide and guess who doesn't have a nade anymore.. U act like its a guaranteed kill. I find triple hunter teams the hardest to face rather then warlocks.

You can't be invisible and blink. It turns off your invisibility. That's why the smart, stealthy hunters don't use blink. As far as the argument for being invisible, big whoop! I kill invisible hunters all the time. They're not a problem. You're still visible on radar; the motion tracker blinks your location just as if you were crouching. The only skill the makes you purely invisible on screen and the motion tracker is the vanish ability on the bladedancer super tree. Nightstalker invisible and crouch/melee to invis still leave you on radar. A perfectly placed grenade deserves an OHKO. Somebody dumb enough to get hit by your grenade twice deserves to die. An easy grenade that any schmuck with a controller can lob close to a corner and basically reduce an entire team to one shot is dumbtastic. It's the only thing about warlocks that are OP. Everything else can be worked around. Stormcallers? Shotty melee. Sunsingers? Same deal. Void bomb? Just run closer and jump high instead of changing direction and altering your momentum, you'll survive 50/50. Shadestep? Big deal! Wait just long enough for their very brief invincibility frames to end and then punish them. Hunters are all based around mobility. Warlocks get their limited health back super quick. Titans just eat damage. It makes sense for hunters to have superior skills focused around mobility. Shadestep is a surprise when it happens for sure, but if you keep your cool, all it does is prolong their death by approximately a second and a half. Tether complaints? Drop that now. It's too easy to be taken out while you're shooting it, and after. Titan suppressor grenades are more useful than tether, to be honest. They come back way quicker, can be doubled up with an Armamentarium, and just take slightly more skill to make contact. Even as a Gunslinger main, I'm not scared of tethers. There is one little tweak that would bring Warlocks in line with grenade balancing, and this is the closest thing I've seen to a plausible tweak from Bungie. If your grenade is close to the body, you deserve better damage and burning, just like an incendiary grenade. If you didn't land the clutch nade, you don't deserve the one shot weak enemy. If you're that worried about a warlock nade nerf, throw your nade and then ADS with your sniper and body shot them.