This is a very misguided statement, and in reality I really wish there was a way to just delete these kinds of comments. They really shouldn't exist. There's a fine line between having/giving an opinion and just lacking insight. First and foremost, you obviously didn't read my entire post or simply just didn't understand what was being said. Bungie didn't pay out of pocket for the development of Destiny, it was funded by a Publisher which in this case was Activision. They are the ones who manage the finances and they are the ones who made the investment. Were you simply not aware of their involvement? I highly suggest you read this for more details: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/143082212/0/0 Simply put, you are defending the wrong people here. THIS version of Destiny was NOT the original design back when Joseph Staten was still on the team. Corporate Directive and the insistent greed of Activision is the root cause of 90% of all the problems with the game and 100% responsible for all the shady business practices. Furthermore, GAMES are no different from any other product sold in the world. It is a give and take. There is likewise risk involved as with anything else. Just because a developer puts the time and sweat into making a game does not magically entitle them to be successful. People aren't going to just make them millionaires for having made something. How many Indie Games out there that are great hardly ever get the kind of recognition and return on their own investment when compared to others? Its because of the ever shifting market and changes in the audience. And with each new generation, their interests change based on development growing up and the kinds of mediums they are exposed to. Gamers from the 1980s have a vastly different perspective from younger Gamers in the 2000s. Example, my first console was an ATARI 7800 and I had games like Pacman, Space Invaders, Centipede, Tron, Pitfall and Battle Tanks. The graphics were shit compared to today's AAA titles, but you know what they DID have? GAMEPLAY. REPLAY VALUE. CHALLENGE. Games that encouraged the development of critical thinking skills. From there, we had the Nintendo Entertainment System which saw the greatest evolution in gaming TO DATE. -Megaman -Faxanadu -Legend of Zelda -Ultima -Final Fantasy -Mario Bros. -Contra -Castlevania -Battle Toads -Double Dragon You won't believe how many people I come across who don't recognize most of those titles,and its truly sad. I hate when people say "they are just video games, who cares?" because they are insulting the culture itself. Any self-respecting GAMER would never be so blase about it. What happened to rich, fulfilling games that would leave a mark on history? Stories and Characters expressed in ways that capture the imagination. Back when damn near every Gamer would dream about one day being able to create their own games. Angry Joe actually made an off hand comment about this once in one of his videos, but it accurately describes this culture and those that are apart of it. Gamers are "Emotional Creatures." It is by nature, not everyone can be a Gamer just like not everyone can be a Ballet Dancer or Football player. The personality, mental focus and personal abilities of any Gamer are different from others. I've seen people who wanted so badly to be Gamers, but just couldn't. No matter how hard they tried. They didn't have the mind for it, and that's perfectly fine because that just means they are suited for other callings. But- Err... Where was I going with this again? I think I had already made my point earlier in this and was trying to add onto it when I suddenly I ended up getting side tracked with another topic altogether. Anyways, yeah! That. Rawr.

Nowhere in my comment was I defending Bungie. I think my 2nd to the last paragraph would have made that clear. I wanted to give all those talks of money to drive the point that what matters to them is the money they make. Yeah, I know about Joseph Staten and Activision. As far as I'm concerned, Activision skinned Bungie alive and wore its skin to fool us into thinking Bungie was behind everything. I didn't deem it important to mention Activision earlier because it didn't matter where the money came from, just that it's already there and they need to profit from it. I probably have the same desire for games with real stories as you. I feel that my PSN ID's a testament to it. But the reality is that Destiny's not one of those games. It may have been, but we'll never see that now. My point was just that you should realize that it's all about money and as long as Activision's at the helm, that's not gonna change. You and others can keep posting stuff like you do, but that's not gonna change things much. You know how the gaming industry is very well. Don't expect Bungie and Activision to decide to focus on their players' welfare too much. There are a lot of other games, present and upcoming, out there that can satisfy us more. I wasn't defending Bungie, just stating the reality of things. I'm sorry if you misunderstood that.

That's right. It is all about the money. And if they put out a quality product the first time and delaying it a little, instead of bastardizing it they could have sold a billion dollars worth and double the people would be throwing their money at the screen for destiny 2. No questions asked. So they better get ttk right or I'll never get tricked into destiny 2 or 3 or 7. Do they want to be the rocky movies? Getting worse with each one ? Or the best game franchise of all time? But bungie as a company does need revenue to operate and make a profit but the individual programmer comes into work and gets a paycheck every week hopefully they make the right decisions and do quality work so they can sell more product and keep getting a paycheck. But how many mistakes can you make before your customers just give up with bad service and good product and goto another supplier? This is what every company in the world deals with everyday bungie is not a special snowflake and they take the risk of going out of business just like any car maker or resturant or some company that makes tooth picks. If Budweiser pissed us all off and we stop buying their beer cause it's bad they go out of business, because they must have deserved it. It's not our problem if all the employees at bungie get fired and go under. It's their responsibility to make us to want to keep coming back and spend more money to allow them to keep going back to work. Anyway just ranting

That's true. I'm just rather pessimistic on the matter. Seeing new noobs everyday makes it worse. No matter how much you guys voice out your concerns or threaten to walk away, there's always gonna be a new player to take your place and in the grand scheme of things, there could be more new players than quitters. If I had never played Destiny before and had to choose between vanilla Destiny and TTK, I'd choose TTK right away. It really has a much better system than vanilla. Most of us year 1 players are just raging over the planned obsolescence of our gear we grinded so long for and prayed so much to RNGesus for. So I fear that even with threats of quitting, TTK will still be attractive enough encourage new players to buy. And that's all that's important to them. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

But that's my point exactly. Wouldn't you want to retain your loyal customers and gain new ones? A business doesn't grow because they say -blam!- our old loyal customers we'll get new ones we don't need the old. People should be pissed because with some of the changes, for example vault space. It's not that we don't appreciate new guns but the fact that you have to DELETE your content that has been paid for. Yes a gun might come out that's better than icebreaker , but maybe one day you want to use it but can't because bungies -blam!-ed up system and you can't get it back. But it's paid for and forever gone. We still run Athion for fun even though Poe is out but what happens when there are 10 more dlcs? You never lose a gun you aquired in battlefield do you? Why should destiny be any different. We can't save raid gear. With perks for crota because there's no room? We paid for it. That's why people are pissed. were paying them so they can take things away? I could go on and on. I'm not crying. I'm arguing the point about what belongs to us and things that are ours and that bungies horrible decisions affect our destiny and our choice on how to be legend.

If bungie was unable to see how the high cost of running such a low quality experience was going to play out they deserve an ear-full. They should have implemented microtransactions to help with costs. But cost does not absolve them of the responsibility of putting out a full featured game. Vanilla Destiny should have had at least as much as other comparable games storywise. You can argue operating costs for poor dlc showings, but not the game originally shipped.

I brought up operating costs because my point was that the content of Destiny is what a game like that can afford. They have to split their budget between development and maintenance. That's why all they can give is a shell of what the game can be. My post wasn't meant to defend Bungie, but to help others realize why Bungle won't give us everything we want. As long as you guys can't accept that, you'll never be satisfied with the game.

Lol @ your first post: investment? In what, marketing? Don't talk about costs without hard numbers.

What, you don't think that developing a game at least a year before its release costs money? They cost millions of dollars. That's a year that the company's losing money. I don't need to do any research on hard numbers to figure that out.