JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 2:37:20 AM
244

It's not always pretty the morning after... Examining Exotic Weapon Tuning 2.0

Greetings fellow Guardians, Last night I put up a post and poll grading weapon tuning for each weapon class which can be found here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/139266548/0/0 It was late and I ran out of space to get to the second half of the update dealing with Exotic Weapon Tuning, but almost immediately started getting requests to discuss it. Besides it being late, I also wanted to take a bit of time to really let these changes sink in and think about how I really feel about them. I'm only going to focus on the fallout from the 4 weapons I've used extensively, [b][u]Thorn Fallout[/u][/b] [quote]•Changes: ◦Reduce base damage of Thorn’s Mark of the Devourer DoT (Damage over Time) to roughly 1/3 of what it was in PVP and PVE ◦Allow DoT to stack up to 5x across multiple landed projectiles ◾This is a net buff for Thorn’s DoT, but reduces the lethality of the weapon in PVP[/quote] I will admit right now, that I was a Thorn defender and made my share of posts denouncing nerfs. But if it was going to be nerfed, I'm not sure this was the answer. Thorns DoT was never the issue with the weapon and messing with the DoT takes away from the character of the weapon in my opinion. Yeah it is probably what pissed people off the most when they died, but if you were dying to Thorn, it was more likely from 2 to the dome than from the poison. The 2 to the dome just didn't need to be from quite so far out. I think a slight range reduction was all that needed to be applied. This weapon is SUPPOSED to be great. It has the most intense bounty chain in the game to acquire and has made a hundred thousand Guardians cry. Those that soldiered through deserved their beast. [b][u]Icebreaker Fallout[/u][/b] [quote]•Changes: ◦Increase recharge time for Ice Breaker rounds to 1 every 8 seconds. Was 1 round every 5 seconds[/quote] I'm going to tell you a story. It's not going to be a good story or a fun story or have anything remotely well thought out or clever in it and honestly it's probably the stupidest thing you'll read today. In fact, it's so dumb; I'm going to let Bungie tell it for me [quote]Hunker down in the back of the map with your lunch box, picnic table, a sci-fi paperback, and Ice Breaker. Kill all the enemies, wait for more to show up, kill those ones too, put a few shots on the boss, make a sandwich, finish the strike, and then collect your reward-that-isn’t-Hawkmoon and move on. The recharging ammo of Ice Breaker has become a staple for the PvE game. We don’t want to completely destroy that, because a really great thing happens when all of a sudden you need Ice Breaker and you’re still waiting on that next round to show up. In that moment there is an interesting tension at play; you need to think about how you spend your next few seconds while it recharges. We are going to amplify that tension by increasing the recharge duration by a few seconds.[/quote] Hey Bungie, do you want to know how I spend the next few seconds while my Icebreaker recharges? BORED. Hey Bungie, know what players do when they get bored playing? They play other games. So gloating and making jokes about how long it takes for the sh*t to recharge and then upping the wait doesn't make you clever, funny or avant-garde, it makes you pretty much clueless. [b][u]Black Hammer Fallout[/u][/b] [quote]•Changes: ◦Increase ammo inventory to 18 rounds ◦White Nail perk now pulls ammo from your inventory[/quote] I get where you were going with this. You don't want players endlessly shooting a boss with infinite ammo, but the White Nail perk does require precision and rewards those who can land their shots quickly and efficiently. You had to know that this was going to piss people off and I'm not sure how you come to this as the best solution to what you perceive as a problem. The only place this can really be an issue is on endgame bosses because they're the only ones you program to pretty much stand still firing while we shoot endlessly into the bullet sponges that they are. Honestly the fault isn't in a weapon that grants free ammo, it's bosses that don't require any more "strategy" than pulling a trigger as many times as you can. I would have suggested that a better or at least more reasonable solution would have been to not allow the perk to proc 2 times in a row. Therefore if a player landed 6 consecutive rounds, they would be required to reload before trying to land 6 more. With this system, you still get free ammo, but can only get enough to double your inventory instead of extending it indefinitely. Fair and reasonable? I think so, what do other BH owners think? [b][u]Gjallarhorn Fallout[/u][/b] [quote]•Changes ◦Reduce damage of Wolfpack Rounds[/quote] Okay, pull up a chair because shit just got real. Before I go further, I want to say that I think it is interesting that Bungie gave pretty detailed percentages for every other announce change, but only state a generic "reduced damage" here. What does that mean? By how much? 5%? 25%? 50% We don't even know how to begin to contemplate the possible ramifications. My initial reaction when I first read it was eh, it's wolfpack rounds and they're overkill anyway. Gjallarhorn is the only weapon in the game that can kill pretty much any endgame shielded enemy in one shot no matter what element shield they have, because the rocket knocks off the shield and the WP rounds finish them. Honestly do I think nerfing Wolfpack Rounds will be game-breaking? Unless the nerf is substantial, no. Honestly I don't think any of these changes are gamebreaking, but they're just annoying and pointless. Why do it? What is the end game, because it really doesn't make a lot of sense. Which brought me to my second thought after sleeping on it. I kept coming back to this statement by the DeeJ [quote]the essential dream of playing Destiny is that you’re always becoming more powerful[/quote] No matter how many times I read that, I can't figure out how any of these changes support that claim. How have we become more powerful by nerfing hand cannons, shotguns, fusion rifles, pulse rifles, TLW, Thorn, Icebreaker, Black Hammer and Gjallarhorn? Oh and btfnw, they're nerfing base weapon stats going forward. Has anyone out there fit those puzzle pieces together or connected those dots yet? I have a very interesting thought that's been percolating all day and maybe it's time to pull out the tinfoil hats, but riddle me this. What if TLW, Thorn, Icebreaker, Black Hammer and Gjallarhorn's nerfs won't be so game changing because TTK is going to bring shiny new weapons to take up those mantles? You won't need your Gjallarhorn when you have the Oryx Ball Buster 3000. You'll never miss your Icebreaker with you Taken-killing Soul Salvation HK117 sniper rifle. So it will all be okay, right? ...Until you contemplate the motivations of a Developer for nerfing the best weapons in the game right before an expansion that they maybe are sweating whether or not people are going to actually re-up for. [quote] our goal is to compel you and to inspire you to see new and more powerful things that you need to embrace, you need to learn, you need to upgrade and you need to master so that you’re always pursuing that next way in which your Guardian is more powerful. Be it a new ability, a new way to channel the powers of the traveler as a weapon towards your enemies or just the weapons [themselves]. -DeeJ[/quote] Until now, Gjallarhorn was the end-all-be-all endgame weapon. Now, if we buy TTK, maybe we can get something better. The question is, is it actually better or is it better than Gjallarhorn post-nerf? If the reason they are nerfing these weapons is to help sell more copies of TTK by tapping into people desires for the best gear, I'd say Activision are running more than we thought. What else could the reasoning be? Are Icebreaker, Black Hammer and Gjallarhorn changing the competitive balance of PvP? No. They excel as PvE weapons and they're FUN. In fact the point of the game is to have FUN. Do Bungie hate FUN? Considering we are running yet another Nightfall and Weekly combo with no burns, I'd say they despise FUN. Nerfing shotguns isn't more FUN. Killing shit with Gjallarhorn? FUN! FUN! FUN! Bungie actually gave reasoning for Gjallarhorn and I saved this for last because this is the funniest shit I've read the last 6 months on this forum: [quote] What we did not intend, and what we unfortunately saw, was pick up Raid and Nightfall groups gating participation based on whether or not players had this weapon. Gjallarhorn was so strong that for many people it had become the only answer to getting through tough encounters, and therefore they were less willing to spend time with other players that didn’t have it. In the new world Gjallarhorn is still worthy of its legacy as an exotic Heavy Weapon, but we hope it promotes inclusive behavior rather than exclusivity. [/quote] Know what solves that problem, Bungie? [spoiler]OPTIONAL IN-GAME MATCHMAKING OR LFG.[/spoiler] [spoiler]Worried about inclusion? https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/126184301/0/0 [/spoiler] [spoiler]I wonder what people will play after the Fallout from these 4 weapons?[/spoiler] ---Edit--- Final thoughts: I think Bungie are lost at sea. There are too many issues that they fail to acknowledge and the ones they do fix, they create 3 more problems for every two they address. Their biggest problem with weapons being that once you get on the nerf train, it's real hard to stop. [spoiler]https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/114553028/0/0[/spoiler] I don't think that what everyone wanted out of weapon tuning 2.0 was NERF EVERYTHING (that wasn't an AR).

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • DO IT NOW VOTE HERE AND FIX DESTINY ONCE AND FOR ALL https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/206833892/0/0 Ps: Spread/spam the word

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Generally speaking, I agree with most of your posts. However, with my week's worth of pvp play, I think it's a step up from where we were with copy and paste thorn/shotgun/blink combo in every hardened game type. Now there are options we can choose from, thorn still works, it just works where it's supposed to rather than taking the mida's name sake of multi tool. I can out gun most people with most guns. That's how I want PvP to roll, I want six different players playing six more. Now, I haven't messed with any PvE since the patch so I can't speak to that, but the changes will likely make sense when everything in TTK is out to see. Until then we can only speculate what the future holds.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Fallout 4

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Wow great post, agreed 110%.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Yup, year 2 weapons will be a bit more shiny looking since the y1 stuff for smacked down. Why on earth was the PVE shotgun nerf necessary? Why nerf field scout? Or the other list of "x perk reduced by ridiculous %"? I really hope TTK brings some good gear. I hope with this new gear that you can customize your characters more. Time will soon tell how good or bad these changes are.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Hi guardians! I recently saw this post. And know how Bungie works, they probably won't read it and it will go away. So I'm going to paste it in a new post. If you support the cause, copy this post and paste it in to one of your own!!! So that eventually (and hopeful) Bungie see's this. Well here it is! :) So, Destiny is almost a year old. I started playing with the Beta, left after TDB was released, and recently returned. I am primarily a PVE player, but will take a turn in the crucible for a change of pace. I, like a lot of people, feel that Destiny year one has been a beta test. If Destiny year two is better that year one, I may be able to get over it. The games shooting mechanics are still a lot of fun. Everything else is pretty much a hot mess. From lack of story, multiple currencies, lifeless environments, heavy grind, confusing advancement requirements, to all the issues with PVP, Destiny has not been a user friendly product. I would like to see more done to compensate year one players. I want to know that Bungie appreciates my business, and all the work we have done testing Destiny. Right now I am not feeling the love from Bungie. I am for ascension of legendary gear. I do not accept the argument of "this is an MMO, so get used to it". I find that to be a defeatist statement. The entire point of giving feedback is to make the game better. Just because something works one way in other games does not mean that is the best way to go forward with Destiny. I would encourage Bungie to find a better way . Do I want to use the same gun for 10 years? Maybe, I don't know. I do know that I want the option to use my legendary gear, and be effective, if that is how I want to play the game. I would like to see bosses that are more than bullet sponges. Make encounters that a memorable and interesting. I want missions that more than my guardian fighting bad guys while Ghost does the work that moves the story forward. I would like to see more environments. There has to be more to earth than Russia and The City. Heck, I would like to explore the city, and see what my character is fighting for. Some in game method of building a strike team for Raids and other end game content. It makes no sense that I have to use fan sites to find a team. The game should make it possible to put a team together for any activity I want to participate in. More customization options for characters, please. Alright, this post is long enough as it is. Hope that Destiny is better in year 2. Have a great time out there guardians! And be sure to bump! :D

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Bump

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Increase white nail to 6 makes it harder to land all 6 in one spot.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Personally I agree with a few of the nerfs to the weapon archetypes. Handcannons were basically better than scouts in every way besides SLIGHTLY shorter range and WAY more damage. They needed to be retooled so they functioned more like real handcannons. In fact, I think that's what a majority of these changes are. they aren't necessarily nerfs, theyre RETOOLING the guns to perform more like they should. Handcannons should be a little cumbersome to use, but reward skilled players with massive damage. Shotguns should reward fast players who can dodge longer range attacks of their enemies in order to get in close for a lethal shot. Fusion rifles should be for the trained people who force people behind cover with massive bursts of suppressive fire. Auto Rifles are great for beginners, and their staggering abilities are ideal for taking out handcannons and fusion rifles. Gjally will NOT be obsolete (despite what the mindless haters want you to believe) as long as the wolfpacks still deal damage, the ghorn will always be dealing more damage than Truth or Dragon's breath. Reducing the wolfpack damage by 10% wont matter at all, trust me. Scout rifles will still be utterly useless at close range, thus making handcannons the viable alternative. Snipers still have the longest range. Shotguns will deal the most damage up close. I think a lot of people are paranoid about these nerfs when they really shouldn't be.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    1 Reply
    • Bump

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • BUMP

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • I think if the white nail shots had to be triggered faster, then it would be better. Same perk, greater risk, great reward.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • In re-reading this post I am reminded that is 'nails' everything that I, too,have been thinking (okay except the BH, make it an exotic and leave it alone). BUMP - I SO hope Bungie sees this and takes it to heart because if Bungie takes stuff away from us every year (or more) then this just isn't my game and I'm going to find something else to play.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Bump bump bump

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

    • Black Hammer nerf makes the gun a terrible weapon overall. The only redeeming quality would be the instant reload you can enjoy four times before you are out of ammo. Otherwise it is just an ugly sniper rifle with a tiny mag and low ammo. I like your idea for the Black Hammer nerf. If you can't handle climbing out of your bush to go and (gasp) use your primary to get some special ammo, then just use Icebreaker! Whenever I see a Boss/Walker I shamelessly whip out my Black Hammer and (insert dick joke here) until they are dead, because it is way easier than using a regular gun. In fact, I believe that Bungie shouldn't be nerfing weapons. They need to be (not necessarily nerfing) [i]fixing[/i] bosses and maybe adding something new to the equation. Imagine if the Devil's Lair was like Kaliks Prime? Where instead of whaling away at a big purple ball you have to whale away at a big purple ball [i]and[/i] kill bad guys that heal the boss? POE may suck, but the bosses are a step in the right direction. What am I even talking about anymore.

      Posting in language:

       

      Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      1 Reply
      • "They excel in pve and are fun." Lmao - it seems anything fun and unique is been re worked or removed . Black hammer is just another sniper now and it's individuality ruined.

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • TTT

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

      • Bump

        Posting in language:

         

        Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        1 Reply
        • Bungie is more Disgusting than the last in every Expansion! D:

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Bump

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Bump

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

        • Bump

          Posting in language:

           

          Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          1 Reply
          • bump!

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Deej is to busy working over a delicious warm shaft sickle with a creamy explosion. Vote Deej for biggest scrub in destiny!

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

          • Edited by BoomerSooner51: 8/16/2015 2:53:53 AM
            [quote]It's not always pretty the morning after..[/quote] Man, this describes many long nights of drinking in my early 20's. Talk about "coyote ugly."

            Posting in language:

             

            Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            2 Replies
            • https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/147005994/0/0

              Posting in language:

               

              Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

            1 2 3 4 5 6 7
            You are not allowed to view this content.
            ;
            preload icon
            preload icon
            preload icon