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Edited by Hawpy:
7/13/2015 10:59:37 PM
329
Why are Scout Rifles so rarely seen in Crucible?
Scout Rifles are currently the second-least used weapon type, ahead of only Sidearms that have been in that game for ~7 weeks, as opposed to just over 10 months. What I want to know is: why? They answer several problems and complaints that people seem to have at the moment
Snipers OP - Scout Rifles are the only weapons that can actually compete with Snipers at long range reliably, so why are they not used?
Thorn needs a range nerf - see above
Auto Rifle buff - Some of the high RoF Scout Rifles can be rolled with Full Auto to provide a weapon that fires faster than a Focus Fire Auto Rifle of the SUROS Impact/RoF denomination, while also dealing more damage and having more range, so why not use them? Good examples are the Deadshot Luna and the NL Shadow. Makeshift AR right there.
Thorn/TLW are broken with 2-shots - High impact Scout Rifles can score 3-hit kills that no one can complain about, hell, The Scholar can 2-shot. If you're looking for a counter, try MIDA Multi-Tool, the hidden talent of High-Calibre rounds and the speedy movements it allows for turn you into a someone that screams "You can't beat what you can't hit"
If you were to ask me (here we go, yet another opinion), I think the reason behind their disuse is the abuse of Shotguns. I shan't lie, there is no worse weapon to be caught using than a Scout Rifle if a Shotgun comes round the corner, ready to blow your head off. I'd be very interested to know anyone else's reasons and thoughts on the matter.
Perhaps, if nothing is going to be nerfed, a slight Scout Rifle buff is in order? The last one was in October and has shown no signs of increased usage
Edit 1: It's great to have found a plethora of Scout Rifle users like myself, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading and debating the points raised here. For now, I'm going to sleep, so will be unable to reply to any of you for the next few hours (rest assured, I shall do my best to get back to you ASAP). Thank you all very much for keeping this post as active as it has been!
Edit 2: The answer I have been given many times now is "Why use them when Hand Cannons are available?". This is exactly the problem the Crucible faces at the moment. A Scout Rifle requires precision and nerve, but Exotic Hand Cannons can be put to stellar use by just about anyone, so there is no incentive to not use them - the bad players use them in hopes of raising their K/D by using something overpowered, and the good players use them so they don't fall behind to everyone else using the same weapons. Someone I used to be friends with, and now despise, has a K/D of 3.97 and 41942 kills with The Last Word, almost double the kills I have in Crucible full stop. From what I understand, he's ranked the 11th best player in the world (according to DestinyTracker). Combine those kind of stats with the sheer numbers of people using TLW/Thorn, it amazes me that this has gone on for so long.
Edit 3: Seriously, massive thanks to everyone who has kept this in the "Trending" section for the last 15-16 hours, stoking the fire of debate with each new point raised. I owe you all one :D
Edit 4: Out of curiosity, I'm wondering who has seen Datto's video that complains about the current state of Crucible ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHenCd2BWNQ for those of you who are interested and yet to see it). It sums up pretty much every non-Scout Rifle related thing I could say, and unlike myself, he's a big enough personality in the community to cause a change
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It's not that hard to camp with a scout rifle.. I wish they were better. Me personally, I love hawkmoon. I'm a hand cannon, really a sniper. But I love the skilled weapons such as hand cannons and scout rifles in previous fps games. Auto rifles are cool, but the easiest to use. They would overrun crucible, although I do wish they had a slight buff to be relevant. One thing cod has over destiny is that you see a bigger variety of guns.
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They are outgunned by hand cannons. That's literally all I can say. I personally would use my new IB scout if I didn't have to get sniped by thorn. Not saying scouts are bad, they are simply outmatched
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While leveling up my hunter I was running scout rifle, fusion rifle this was actually not a bad combo, and I had quite a bit of fun with it.
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Because Hand Cannons can hit at the same range, so why bother with a Scout Rifle? Bungie doesn't seem to understand balance. TLW and Thorn basically work across long distances, rendering Scout Rifles useless. It's a shame really.
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Because most people need their crutches to be able to do good. Thorn doesn't take skill, MIDA does...therefore MIDA is only seen used by skilled people
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They're PvE weapons mainly, will never be used by top PvP players due to the nature of their role.
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I've been using wolfs leash for awhile in crucible now, works very great to
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1 ReplyMida has a secret perk, high calibre rounds, and my team found it impossible to snipe in my first match because of mida extra stun
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3 RepliesMaps are too small for them to excel because handcannons are more effective at the ranges gun fights occur on these smaller maps
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I normally use pulses and hand cannons an do well. Scout rifles don't kill fast enough and turn me into an assist machine.
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I swear those -blam!-er have had a buff mida multi tool rekt now
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Edited by Bik9587: 7/13/2015 7:04:42 AMBecause half the time i use a scout rifle a hand cannon user still out guns me from across the map.... I dont think theres enough space for scout rifles on most maps. Some maps i do great with a SR then other times its pointless
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I was asking the same question just last night, so dusted off my MIDA Multi Tool and went into control. Did pretty well!
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i use my vision of confluence in control all the time
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I use a scout rifle. - scholar adept or gheleon's demise.
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Cause Thorn and TLW
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Edited by CozMcKilljoy: 7/13/2015 6:43:47 AMScouts are my favorite weapon type in the game. I use them in Crucible where you have lengthy sight lanes. Unfortunately, Thorn has enough range that it competes with Scouts, also as many have said, a pulse kills quicker.
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Almost all of the crucible maps are small, and combat is in close quarters. This puts scout rifles at a disadvantage most of the time.
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Because you never need the effective range of a scout rifle on current maps (excluding combined arms). Thorn or a pulse gets the job done faster.
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Edited by draycole: 7/13/2015 6:41:58 AMIf it's not VoC or mida it probably sucks And because thorn has sniper range
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At the moment, it's a couple of factors. 1) Sight Lines. Most maps don't really have any areas were you'll have time to effectively draw a bead on a target before they can hide, so you want either to spray the area or use the biggest gun you can. 2) Arena size. Ties into the above that there's nowhere that a SR's forte can really shine, save for on Combined Arms maps.
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Edited by Dagugin: 7/13/2015 6:31:42 AMBecause hand cannons do more damage from pretty much the same distance for most distances. If hand cannons worked like they were supposed to and not have as much range as scouts, then scouts would be used more
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I use Thorn and get wrecked by good scout users. I switch up and use one from time to time.
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It's a combo of hand cannons and shotties being way too OP in the current metagame. Also, the fact that there is only 1 exotic scout available currently as opposed to freaking 3 top tier pistols, one of them being the best PvP weapon in the whole game. Pistols are not supposed to be as effective from range yet with Thorn, Hawkmoon, hell even TLW you can snipe people from miles away and get ez kills. With the target acquisition and those amazing perks in those pistols, they almost always outgun scouts from mid to long range. The high impact means that all you need are a few well placed shots and you're getting the kill. TTK from pistols are way too fast in the current meta and scouts just take way too many shots to land a kill. My fav weapon in the game is MIDA and I always try and keep away when using it but even when you do it all right you still get outgunned by the top 3 pistols easily. The range displayed on their stats is a massive lie, they can snipe as easily as scouts so their biggest advantages is not much of one at all. There is no incentive to use scouts over pistols other than that sweet MIDA radar but I play inferno mostly anyway. As for close range? Shotties dump all over scouts. You're not supposed to be up close with scouts but it's bound to happen. You can stop a rushing shottie with a pistol and pulse sometimes with well placed crits/bursts but with scouts, you better be praying that your opponent misses the package. It's going to take a miracle to stop a rushing shottie with a scout if his start is from mid range. From mid range, pulse rifles seem much better. Red Death will outgun a MIDA from mid range most of the time. For the record, I have a Luna with full auto + hand laid stock + red dot + crowd control. One of my fav weapons to use in PvP but outclassed across the board. The rof is faster than a Suros ADS for my money which is one of the few pros of the gun. You could roll that on a NL shadow as well or a High Road Soldier.
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Scouts have been the least used because they punish you more for being less accurate. They have some of the highest times to kill with only bodyshots, and so more than half of your hits must be headshots for them to compete against other weapons who are much more forgiving in their prime (autos back then, and now exotic handcannons and pulses to an extent).
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Nice emblem <3
