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#feedback

Edited by Lost Sols: 12/7/2015 3:07:53 AM
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Intolerance. Gaming, Destiny and finding common ground in an online world.

[quote]Greetings fellow Guardians, I think a large number of you are aware at this point of the standoff that's been going on between a portion of the community and Bungie over the issue of matchmaking. If you've been on the forums the last week+, you know that I have been involved in this and have tried to reason along with hundreds of other guardians why this issue is so important to us. I have to admit that I was pretty down yesterday. I'd posted on Bungie's stance of not only silence, but removal of posts from the Trending and Highest Rated categories... only to have them remove it too an hour later. As I told another Guardian who found theirself angry with their post removed today, censorship sucks... but when you find you're the one being censored, it is literally like a kick in the gut and it is really hard to not take it personally. I never intended to be here writing these posts, but sometimes you end up places in life where you're given a choice. I love the game and have been a Bungie fan since '02, I don't want to be adversaries with them. So here I am reaching out to you all again (and Bungie, if they care to listen) in one more attempt to convey that we're just trying to reach the same goal of making Destiny the best game it can be. Thank you, Lost Sols[/quote] So I was thinking about all of this this morning. The mm issue, the forum censorship, the hardline stance by Bungie and the division this has caused between members of the community as well as the disconnect between us and Bungie at this point. Yesterday was a struggle and I wasn't sure what today would bring. Then at about 5:30 this morning the supportive posts started coming in and not just from those that have been backing this cause, but new voices adding their support. That helped bouy my spirits quite a bit, but then something else happened. These messages lit up. [quote]Make friends scrub[/quote] [quote]Go to computer games if you want in game matchmaking idiot.[/quote] [quote]Wow your pretty stupid why would there be in game matchmaking were playing on consoles not PCs FYI..[/quote] Nothing terribly over the top for the forums for sure. Muted one. Replied to the other two. One's response was "Queer". It opened my eyes and brought this whole week into focus. This isn't just about whether or not there should or shouldn't be matchmaking in Destiny, this is about showing tolerance for other people and points of view (and yes, it goes both ways). There's no doubt LFG and clans can be great ways to meet people and experience games with them. I don't think anyone who wants matchmaking would deny that. Something else that cannot be denied is indelibly a part of both of those avenues of meeting people is that they're both built on the foundation of not only inclusion, but exclusion as well. This isn't to draw all who use LFG or have clans under one umbrella, but a staple of both forms of grouping is intolerance, preconception and segregation. We've all read hundreds of posts along the lines of "kicked from raid for not having Gjally", "can't get into PoE because don't have Thorn", "kicked a squeaker before loot because he was annoying", etc. Now how many of the thousands of clans or LFG groups actually discriminate against people (gear, age, voice, gender, race, etc)? My guess is that whatever the %, it is far in the minority, but that brings us to the issue of matchmaking. Matchmaking is inherently everything LFG is not. There is no bias, there is no prejudice going in, there is no "must be 32, have big Gjally". Matchmaking treats everyone as equals and some may argue that's for better or worse, but I can say this for a fact. When I'm queueing for a random matchmade game, I don't care if you are old, young, black, white, Asian, straight, gay, male, female, deep voiced or a squeaker. I don't care if you're using Gjallarhorn, Dragon's Breath, Thorn, Up for Anything or any other weapon. All I care is that you try and you do your best at whatever we are trying to achieve. If you have a mic and want to talk that's great. If you just want to play and know what to do, that's great too. The argument that is waged the most against matchmaking is that people won't have mics, they won't have the right weapons, they'll be annoying, they'll be quitters, they'll be scrubs, they'll need to be carried through... The problem is that you don't know what someone is if you never give them a chance. When you tell someone they can't join your group because you don't like their gear or the sound of their voice, you have no idea who the person is that you are turning away. You don't know their capabilities, skill or willingness to do whatever the team needs. You're also not taking a chance to know someone that could potentially end up being a great friend. It's a lesson that could heal so much of what is wrong in this world if we just stopped the FEAR, stopped the HATE and stopped the MISTRUST and started giving each other a chance and realizing we're all the same. We have one life on this planet to live together the best we can, to love the best we can, to make what friends we can and provide the best life and make this world the best place it can be for our families and children. Destiny is a [i]game[/i]. If someone dies and your raid group wipes, it's not going to take food from your table, money from your pocket or draw any blood. So why get mad? Why disparage? Why not help them get better if they need it instead? We are all here because we love playing Destiny. There will always be those that are better and those that need a helping hand. There is no greater chance of coming across someone who is just a bad person in matchmaking as there is in LFG, it's just a misconception and lie perpetuated and hidden behind so people can pick and choose whom they experience content with. The maddening thing is that we are asking in these posts for an option to use matchmaking, so it would have no affect on those that didn't want to use it anyway. Not everyone is going to be a social butterfly. Not everyone is going to have any extra time to go get on their computer and LFG. Not everyone HAS a computer or smartphone to team up outside the game. Not everyone wants to be friends or in a clan, they just want someone to run and experience some content with. Maybe someone isn't talking because they are deaf. Maybe they can't reach out online because they have social anxiety disorder. Maybe they don't want to try to join a clan for fear of rejection. It doesn't matter why someone doesn't want to go outside the game to play it because that is no one's decision or right to judge but their own. Should they be punished and excluded from access to the heart of endgame play because of their reasons? That is the question everyone, including Bungie with their "Philosophy" need to look inside and ask themselves. Bungie. I've saved you for last because I'm sorry, but you've been the biggest disappointment in all of this. You created this game and asked us to populate it. You created this forum and asked us to give thoughts, opinions and feedback to help improve the world of Destiny. You said... [quote]Player feedback is one of the most important components of the conversation on Bungie.net[/quote] [quote]Bungie thrives on feedback. Never feel like you need to stick up for us when you see someone expressing an honest opinion about our games. We’re harder on ourselves than anyone else.[/quote] [quote]If you’d like to see new items placed on this list, start a New Topic on this Feedback board. Popular opinion matters! Topics that trend on this forum are more powerful than comments on this post.[/quote] You told us to forge our own destiny and to become legend. Well here we are, Bungie. We've purchased your game. We've spent thousands of hours in your world. We have fought the Fallen, Hive, Vex and Cabal. Travelled to Mars, the moon and Venus. We have fought in the Crucible and strived for success in Iron Banner. We have populated these forums. We have offered feedback and suggestions. We have started new topics and we have supported each other and posts and ideas for a better Destiny that we believe matter. We've done everything you have asked of us and we've given and invested ourselves in this game. And here we are with a genuine concern and feeling of exclusion and we come to these forums and reach out to you in this medium you've created for us. We've been eloquent, fair and we've made genuine efforts to educate, engage, understand and find common ground and we've grown and learned more about each other all along the way. We've poured our energy and emotions into this and in return we've been given a few stock replies, ignored and worst of all, these topics you've asked us to create, these ideas you've asked us to share, have been routinely and thoroughly censored by removing them from the 2 most visible forum tabs. We've genuinely tried reaching out to you in the hopes of finding understanding and repairing this disconnect. I've stated this before and I'll say it again. We are not adversaries. [quote]I'm really conflicted at the moment. I am so grateful for the way the community have banded together to support each other and this community desire, but I'm also genuinely saddened at the stance that has been taken against us. This was a call to reason, not war.[/quote] I never wanted to write that. I hope you're listening and I hope you come back to the table. We're not asking for you to do anything you can't, we're just asking you to consider a different point of view.

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    • BUMP

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      • bump!

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      • Petition to Free Sols! [url=https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freesols]https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/freesols[/url] Post this link EVERYWHERE YOU CAN, and maybe we will be able to FREE SOLS!

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        • Edited by Stahero: 8/17/2015 5:43:37 AM
          Lost Sols, what a contrivance of interest you've become. At first you seem the eager contributor, enthusiastically offering your relatively educated opinions forth, denouncing or supporting various concepts from Bungie. But then, almost suddenly, your renown burgeons sporadically and your influence is pressed along every boundary of these forums; your every word garnering a great deal of public attention. I find that... peculiar. And now, almost as if I encourage your questioned stardom, I find myself begrudgingly curious of your popular opinions. Come, Lost Sols, let us talk once more of important things, Guardian to Guardian. [b]MATCHMAKING[/b] I gather it to be your opinion that matchmaking endorses inclusivity. That Guardians less than fortunate would be given a deserved chance at Destiny's endgame activity. From your perspective, I imagine you find this an ideal solution for the discriminatory mindsets of The Guardian Malcontents, those who demand ludicrous criteria for inclusion. I politely disagree. In a perfect world, you would be right. If every Guardian felt such tolerance as perhaps you or I do, none would suffer ostracism or exclusion. But that, my dear Lost Sols, is not this world. Even in the rank and file of the most tolerant Fireteam, volatile hostility would still breed excessively. Hatred is just as human as love, and many would suffer insults, abuse, derogation, mistreatment, or otherwise uncalled for cruelty at the hands of ill-tempered Guardians. You know this. It noble of you to think so optimistically, truly it is. But it is also naïve to believe such readily available inclusion wouldn't engender blatant bullying. Why, just look upon these forums. You of all people should know, you who spend such a great deal of time here, that people are generally intolerable. One offered opinion, one slight misstep, one unintended comment, and they converge around you like starved wolves. Matchmaking serves no one save for elitist Malcontents, the ones who may have missed their moment of allotted time and have become desperate. Would others benefit? Of that I've no doubt. But the scales are weighted heavily in favor of the Guardian Malcontents, the Trolls who bully for attention, the Players who are self-serving that may choose to abandon others once satisfied. It is unfortunate, but unfortunately true nonetheless. [b]TOLERANCE[/b] Now [i]this[/i] we agree on. It may interest you to know that I consider myself a small part of the Deaf Community. I'm well versed in ASL and have known many remarkable Deaf people. I myself am not deaf, nor am I CODA. But I am studying ASL interpretation and am saddened to know that some deaf players are actively outcasted due to their inability to hear or because of their speech. Such barbaric discrimination though hardly surprising when one accounts some of the populace of the Destiny community. You, Lost Sols, cannot be counted among them. You are a true gentlemen. Lately these forums seem to have become a haven for prejudice and bigotry; unworthy of one such as you. You seem a smart man, so surely you must know your plights for acceptance and tolerance are told mostly to ignorants who foolishly think their narrow minds are infallible. Even with your reputation, hatred and discrimination will always plague this place of discussion. Save yourself the time and forgo proselytizing. Do not waste your time attempting to educate these hate-mongers, as they will not listen to you or anyone. If I may, why not spend your time elsewhere, a place where you could do some good. It would be in your best interest. [b]BUNGIE[/b] Now, as I'm aware I'm in the ever-shrinking minority, I've always supported Bungie and still very much do. I only recognize they are in a most unenviable position, one in which a great many either ignore or complete look over. During our last conversational palaver, I may have been a bit too general and perhaps even vague. Allow me to explain very clearly: Bungie, the Developers of Destiny, do not hold exclusive autonomy in their Game's development. Activision, the Publishers of Destiny, fund or otherwise pay the internal development team (Bungie) to work on their licensed Intellectual Property (Destiny). As such, Activision is an "external developer" and actively monitors, critiques, and likely even assists in ongoing development. Some of the most controversial decisions Destiny suffers from may have been enforced by Activision or at the very least encouraged (I.e., the growing price of DLC). Furthermore, Destiny as an existing Intellectual Property still maintains support for Last Generation consoles (Xbox 360 and Playstation 3). This is likely a mandate from Activision, which while profitable, severely stunts Destiny's in-game content growth. For an example, one could pose the Dragon Age: Inquisition/Witcher 3 dichotomy. Dragon Age: Inquisition, like Destiny, supported previous generation consoles. While a great game, it suffered immensely in terms of content availability, especially if one compares it to Witcher 3. Unlike DAI, Witcher did not have support for Last Generation consoles. Because of that, it offered a much more in-depth world with much more detail. In terms of sheer world size, longevity, scope, and content, Witcher 3 easily beats Dragon Age: Inquisition in all retrospects. Were Destiny exclusive to new generation consoles, many of their biggest problems would just as easily be solved. Vault Space, Customization, Bigger Maps, Better Servers, in general Vastly Greater Content. Perhaps even matchmaking. All of these heavily demanded issues would be remedied. I promise you. But regrettably, they can't just suddenly choose not to support Last Generation consoles. As an MMO, That would require shutting down 360/PS3 servers entirely, which would lead to lawsuits and general dissatisfaction. I also say this as fact, not of judgement. Last Generation Consoles hold back games. Like it or not. This is why Bungie is in a most unenviable position, Lost Sols. I wholeheartedly believe they do the most with what little they have. I believe they want to give us more, but they are impossibly constrained by a great many things. Until support for Last Generation consoles are dropped, Destiny as we all know it can't be expected to change. Perhaps when Destiny 2 is released things will notably get better. But that requires much patience and understanding, something you and I both know hardly exists in these forums. Our little matter of agreement it seems. Agree, or agree to disagree?

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          • I saw an invite to VOG hard mode I was stunned to see that it said "must be 32+" I dont understand that kind of stuff People used to run that with 29s and 30s( because we had to) I understand that if you want to speed run then it will help a lot But other than that i dont understand how the LFG will ever be fixed with that kind if attitude

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          • well said

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          • I love this post so much. You, good sir, have brought tears to my eyes. Bump with the force of a million suns.

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          • https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/147005994/0/0

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          • BUMP

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          • They've already said no, it's not part of their plan. How long can the drama go on? Nothing new to complain about? Matchmaking is the fallback. I wish, with every cell of my existence that you guys could have matchmaking, I really do. If I was a billionaire, I would personally make it happen as a punishment for the limited thinking that everyone has concerning it's impact on the game. Sometimes, we can want things that aren't good for us...

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          • I think someone who posted in a similar forum said it best... "Bungie, at least give us the option to jump in with a bunch of random players who want to accomplish the same task...its faster to start playing with others who are willing to play, than begging everyone who makes up our [fake] friends list (aka people we already don't know)." I waste so much time trying to find ppl to play poe and raid its ridiculous. Let us make REAL friends through matchmaking and sucessful raids. Think "HALO." Thank you all!

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            • Well said BUMP.

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            • ****knocks over the ten commandment tablets** ****places a large new tablet with this post engraved on it.*****

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              • Super bump

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              • Was this another matchmaking post? TLDR

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                • Way too dramatic. Sometimes less is more.

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                • Match making for raids would have been nice, but they did not want players to do it so it became part of a game I never played. I bought destiny thinking great things but soon discovered the grind, and the boredom associated with it. This lead me to basically shelving the game and was disappointed in the hundred dollars I paid. I have no intention to purchase anymore extensions for this product and will be removing it from the playstation console to make room for new games

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                • Another valid post from Lost Sols. Keep fighting the good fight.

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